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-   -   Bearing or non-bearing, that is the question. (with pictures) (http://www.diychatroom.com/f19/bearing-non-bearing-question-pictures-64797/)

Stephen S. 02-18-2010 02:20 PM

Bearing or non-bearing, that is the question. (with pictures)
 
5 Attachment(s)
I bought a house with its master bath almost the same size as the walk-in closet , also there's a wall between the shower/toilet and the sink so it makes the master bath even smaller.

My plan is to:
1) tear down the wall between the sink and the toilet/shower (Wall A)
2) tear down the wall/columns to open a space for the shower (Wall B)
3) replace the shower by a jacuzzi tub
4) chop the closet in half by building a wall and the saved space to install a shower
5) open a new doorway to enter the closet from the bedroom instead of entering from bath (optional)

Please see below for a rough sketch of the plan.
http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/5282/remodelplan.jpg

The question is, can I remove wall A and B?

Here's some pictures for the actual walls ...

Any more info. I should provide to assist with the determination ? Thank you.

Ron6519 02-18-2010 03:23 PM

No, you can't just remove them. Both these walls carry the framing above. I don't think I've ever seen 2x4 ceiling joists in stick built house.
You would need to install headers under both walls for support and there would need to be a corner post where the walls intersect.
Ron

Scuba_Dave 02-18-2010 04:12 PM

Yup, with a properly sized header to carry the loads you could remove both walls
Seems like the corner will stay as part of the new closet/attic wall?
That makes it easier
But you also need to make sure that corner post is supported below properly
1 story house, 2 story ? Basement/crawl space ?

Stephen S. 02-18-2010 04:47 PM

5 Attachment(s)
The corner post is not at the same plane with the blue wall at the moment because there was a sliding door at the blue wall plane before ... I'll need to move the corner post, which is holding up the top part (header?) of the red wall. Attached with pictures at another angle to show the corner post intersection. The desired new wall is indicated by yellow ...

It's a multi story building, the bath is at 3rd level with another level below and then garage and the lowest.

How can I build a strong enough header to transfer the load before removing the walls?

The red wall bothers me the most since it chopped the bathroom in half by separating the toilet/bath with sink ...

Scuba_Dave 02-18-2010 04:57 PM

If you do not want a header where wall A is located you would need to redo the ceiling joists
Other wise the header for wall B would need to go all the way over to the end of the closet
Then the header for Wall A would land on the Wall B header
So the wall B header would be carrying a greater load

This all depends upon the load being able to be carried from below top support the new headers & supports
No one can really size this without doing the load calcs

Is there an opening/drop down stairs to the attic shown by that opening?
I'd be inclined to rip the ceiling down & redo the joists w/2x6's to span the distances needed to eliminate the walls
The 2x4 existing ceiling joists just seem to be running every which way

Ron6519 02-18-2010 05:00 PM

You need to know the relationship of the ceiling joists to the location of the new support wall. You might need to sister beams to the ceiling
joist(s) to reach the location of the new wall.
Ron

Stephen S. 02-18-2010 05:32 PM

2 Attachment(s)
I guess I'd have to redo the ceiling joist since I'd rather leave the bathroom unusable for longer while than to see wall A there every time I use ...

The wall B header is currently spanning all the way to the closet. I just hope to move the main column at wall B over for walk in shower opening.

The opening on the ceiling is the opening into attic ... no drop down stairs just an opening.

One thing I found is that the 2x4's ceiling joist is not really lying on top of the header of wall A. I can see a gap ... not sure if this helps ...

tpolk 02-18-2010 05:38 PM

looks like there are no load bearing headers now

Scuba_Dave 02-18-2010 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stephen S. (Post 402255)
The wall B header is currently spanning all the way to the closet. I just hope to move the main column at wall B over for walk in shower opening.

One thing I found is that the 2x4's ceiling joist is not really lying on top of the header of wall A. I can see a gap ... not sure if this helps ...

There isn't any header that I can see in any of those pics

Wall A might not be load bearing, all depends upon the ceiling joists

http://www.architectionary.com/uploa...oorframing.jpg

jlhaslip 02-18-2010 07:16 PM

Agreed with tpolk 2 posts up. If they were structural walls, there would be a pre-existing header.

Scuba_Dave 02-18-2010 07:32 PM

Yeah, looking at the pics again it seems that wall A was added after the fact

The blue wall - B - does look like the joists sit on it
But again it might not be load bearing
All depends upon where the ends of the joists land & how supported

Need a bigger pic of where all the ends land

Gary in WA 02-18-2010 09:53 PM

All you need is to add a sistered ceiling joist to each joist, on either side, next to running wall Blue. Their size will be determined by the span from rafter-bearing wall to next wall past RED. They just framed in the attic access with 2x4's perpendicular to the ceiling joists.

Be safe, Gary

Stephen S. 02-19-2010 12:46 AM

Thank you guys. Yeah it's such a mess on the attic ... I'll clean it up a bit to show the ceiling joists and post better pictures later ...

Stephen S. 03-17-2010 02:32 AM

Busy for the past month dealing with the kitchen remodel/flooring ... now back to the bathroom remodel, I took some more pictures hopefully they provide enough evidence that I can take down wall A :)

Wall A ends at the double wall indicated by purple... The 2x4 ceiling joists along wall A are not resting on it.
http://img32.imageshack.us/img32/271...argemedium.jpg

Is it safe to say that wall A is non bearing and I can remove it along with the stud that's embedded in the purple wall?
http://img694.imageshack.us/img694/5071/wallamedium.jpg

Thank you.

Scuba_Dave 03-18-2010 06:12 PM

Several problems...2x4'as as ceiling joists do not span very far..maybe 6'
If a home owner did the ceiling & the doorways they may not have thought they needed headers
I still am not 100% sure from the pics shown if the walls can be totally taken down

How far do the ceiling joists span ?


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