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Old 09-07-2012, 06:44 PM   #1
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Beams twisting off posts *PICS ADDED*


details in my prior thread.. pics included.. i'm sorry i could only get pic of one side of the posts to show how much they have slid. I wish i could show the side of how much they are "off" the beam, but just try to picture the overhang based on how much the caps are warped. these are two different beams. one is like 1/2 inch slide, the other is about 3/4.

remember these started out FLUSH on the post (two 2X's on top of 4X )

the pics don't look like a big deal, but trust me, these are moving and get worse and worse as time goes by.

So is beam warping/twisting normal? Are those cheap flimsy post connectors? Its bending those connectors right off.

read thread below for more details.. thanks!
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Beams twisting off posts  *PICS ADDED*-photo-1-.jpg   Beams twisting off posts  *PICS ADDED*-photo.jpg  

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Old 09-07-2012, 08:50 PM   #2
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Beams twisting off posts *PICS ADDED*


*note: original post is here: PT beams warp or twist off posts?


2x12 is actually 1.5 x 11.25 in actual size and 4x4 is actually 3.5 x 3.5.

That means the total width of the beam is 3 inches wide (unless a 1/2" ply was sandwiched in between), sitting on a 3.5 inch wide post when it was first installed. That is what it looks like to be the case for your left picture.

Can you take a picture of the beam from the bottom to see if there is any material in between 2x12 lumber? Can you take a small level and check the beams to see if they are plumb?

As far as the right picture is concerned, I noticed that the post was not set in the center of the footing. Can you check to see if the post / footing is plumb. Maybe the ground has settled/shifted? Another possible explanation of that flange crushing down is that when they toe nailed it, nails were driven in at a wrong angle, creating a slight "lift". As you used your deck over a period of time, nails could have settled down, compressing the flange.

BTW, I think post caps are meant to provide vertical stability by tying into ground posts and that horizontal stability is provided by joists / (wood) decking.

Lastly, can you throw in some lights under the deck and take a picture from the end of the beam so that we can see how it is twisting/curling?

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Old 09-08-2012, 03:00 PM   #3
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Beams twisting off posts *PICS ADDED*


the beams definitely are not plum because they are "twisting" off the posts, not "sliding". i checked the POST for plum on this picture i am attaching now, it is dead on balls plum. a couple of the other posts are out of plum slightly (touching the line in bubble). but the posts are out of plum to the OPPOSITE direction of the way they are twisting off the posts.

in the new picture you can now see it is 1/2 inch OFF the post, they definitely weren't built that way.

there is no debris under the posts or between the posts.

look at how flimsy that post connector is. it looks like its made of tin. I'm leaning toward this being a problem as a bad job of fastening two boards together to make a solid beam (i'm sure no glue) and very flimsy post connectors that are not stopping lateral movement.

oh, and there is no toe nailing at all.. only nails going straight into the beam and into the post through the post connector holes.


it could also be a frost heave issue.
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Old 09-08-2012, 03:54 PM   #4
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Your missing 3/4 of the hanger nails and some of the rusted ones may not even be the right nails.
There suppost to have been ACQ approved hanger nails.
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Old 09-08-2012, 05:38 PM   #5
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Unless your willing to replace the post with notched 6x6 then run some 3/8 galvanized bolts through those big holes and be done with it.
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Old 09-08-2012, 06:45 PM   #6
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Those big holes are not part of fastening system, Simpson specifically states NOT to put a bolt thru them. i imagine other makers do too. But I imagine lots of things. I didn't imagine the missing nails, I know because joe didn't see them either. The rule is "Fill every hole." I know, but fill every nail hole. Looks like somebody tried to save money on the cheapest part. Use the nails or screws, I like the screws, made for the purpose. The connectors are thin and flimsy looking, but with nails where they're supposed to be they won't bend like that. Toe nailing not required or recommended. Assuming the posts are secure and reasonably plumb, its gonna be tough to get those beams back over them. You got joists on the beams and deck on the joists. But if entire deck is built to same quality, you may be able to shove the whole thing over. BTW is entire deck shifting or pulling away from house? Are the posts secure on footings? Are the footings deep enough for your area? What is your area? If you go back to original thread (and why did you start new one? There are some other questions for you there) you will see jonM's suggestion. That with some modifications and adaptions might be best answer.
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Old 09-08-2012, 06:46 PM   #7
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I'll echo JoeCaption and kwiskfishiron.

Just make sure to use hot dipped galvanized nails and bolts/nuts/washers.

You can always attach H1, H2.5a or H10a connectors from joist to beam to give you bit more stability.

Here is what my freestanding deck looks like from underneath:

HOUSE SIDE:



CANTILEVER SIDE:

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Old 09-08-2012, 07:05 PM   #8
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Quote:
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Those big holes are not part of fastening system, Simpson specifically states NOT to put a bolt thru them.
You are right, I stand corrected.

I will say I couldn't count how many of those holes I've bolted through and have always passed inspections.
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Old 09-08-2012, 08:04 PM   #9
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I will say I couldn't count how many of those holes I've bolted through and have always passed inspections.
I was just sayin, that's all. As for me I would never do somethin that old man Simpson said not too. Ya can't fool me though, that hole is just beggin for a big ol' hex head bolt or lag screw. And you have inspectors that actually look under the deck?
The only permit work I've done in my town was my own patio cover. They gave me some flack about the span of the beams I wanted to use, After some thisnthat i told um I'd triple sister the 2X10's, limieted head room, and they said OK. The inspector sez to call him when Im done. "done?" sez I, All done?" and he sez yes. So I call him, he comes over, spends 10 seconds lookin at my boxed in beams sez, "Looks good" and scribbles on the tag. Sure the box was big enough for 3 sisters, as a mature of fact two 2X10 sisters were on each side of their little sister 2X8, cause that's what i had. Still standing, leaks like a sieve but that aint their fault.
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Old 09-08-2012, 08:24 PM   #10
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Quote:
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And you have inspectors that actually look under the deck?
Actually yes, on “My Coast” just about everything is built on a slope. It may look like a ranch from the driveway but on the back (view) side it could be 15’+ to the first piece of siding, so looking under decks usually isn’t a problem.

Since I’ve never had an inspector call me on this you would think “old man Simpson” would have a “don’t use this hole” warning on the bracket itself.

Come on now, I’ve known not to remove mattress tags for most of my life because they told me so in plain sight.
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Old 09-09-2012, 02:42 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by notmrjohn View Post
Those big holes are not part of fastening system, Simpson specifically states NOT to put a bolt thru them. i imagine other makers do too. But I imagine lots of things. I didn't imagine the missing nails, I know because joe didn't see them either. The rule is "Fill every hole." I know, but fill every nail hole. Looks like somebody tried to save money on the cheapest part. Use the nails or screws, I like the screws, made for the purpose. The connectors are thin and flimsy looking, but with nails where they're supposed to be they won't bend like that. Toe nailing not required or recommended. Assuming the posts are secure and reasonably plumb, its gonna be tough to get those beams back over them. You got joists on the beams and deck on the joists. But if entire deck is built to same quality, you may be able to shove the whole thing over. BTW is entire deck shifting or pulling away from house? Are the posts secure on footings? Are the footings deep enough for your area? What is your area? If you go back to original thread (and why did you start new one? There are some other questions for you there) you will see jonM's suggestion. That with some modifications and adaptions might be best answer.
i started another thread because i couldnt figure out how get "pics added" in the subject line of original thread.

Are the posts secure? not sure how i can tell that, there is a thouand pounds on them, they don't move when i push them.

the footings passed 3 foot inspections for NJ.

instead of trying to shift the whole deck i think i can jack the joists up to relieve the weight right at that point and by putting a 2X4 against the bottom of the beam and with a sledge hammer hitting the 2x4 down i can push the beam back to center of post and then use correct number of galvanized nails in the holes.
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Old 09-09-2012, 04:18 PM   #12
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"couldnt figure out how get "pics added" you really didn't need to, just add the pics. Have you revisited old thread? Redirected them to this one? You left folks hanging, sorta like your beams.
putting a 2X4 against the bottom of the beam and with a sledge hammer hitting the 2x4", if it is just the bottoms of the beams twisted out of place, The joists are fastened to the beams and deck boards to joists and both could be holding the beam in its new position. If so something had to have moved somewhere. Once you get a beam jacked you can see if post is secure, give it a few whacks.
thumbs, Gol durn the under side of your deck sure is purty, the top side must be a masterpiece.
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Old 09-09-2012, 10:12 PM   #13
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thanks notmrjohn but mine is just a good old 5/4x6 pressure treated decking/baluster setup.
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Old 09-09-2012, 10:16 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by windowguy View Post
details in my prior thread.. pics included.. i'm sorry i could only get pic of one side of the posts to show how much they have slid. I wish i could show the side of how much they are "off" the beam, but just try to picture the overhang based on how much the caps are warped. these are two different beams. one is like 1/2 inch slide, the other is about 3/4.

remember these started out FLUSH on the post (two 2X's on top of 4X )

the pics don't look like a big deal, but trust me, these are moving and get worse and worse as time goes by.

So is beam warping/twisting normal? Are those cheap flimsy post connectors? Its bending those connectors right off.

read thread below for more details.. thanks!
So long as the floor band is sistered properly, you will be fine.
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Old 09-10-2012, 10:06 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by notmrjohn View Post
"couldnt figure out how get "pics added" you really didn't need to, just add the pics. Have you revisited old thread? Redirected them to this one? You left folks hanging, sorta like your beams.
putting a 2X4 against the bottom of the beam and with a sledge hammer hitting the 2x4", if it is just the bottoms of the beams twisted out of place, The joists are fastened to the beams and deck boards to joists and both could be holding the beam in its new position. If so something had to have moved somewhere. Once you get a beam jacked you can see if post is secure, give it a few whacks.
thumbs, Gol durn the under side of your deck sure is purty, the top side must be a masterpiece.

I thought i answered all the prior questions.. i think the only only one was the soil. its all clay and the ground is level.

i'm pretty sure the deck builder put bolts into the wet concrete foots and then put the brackets on the bolts. If after i jack up the joists to relieve the pressure if the posts have some movement in them how would i resecure them? But i agree 100%, if the posts have movement that would allow the twisting for sure. that would be a no bueno.

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