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Old 07-12-2012, 02:37 PM   #16
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Beam for Deck


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Originally Posted by jcarlilesiu View Post
Gotcha. Still, if you have a 2X beam cutting into a 6X6 which is 5.5" thick, you are basically removing over 1/4 of its cross sectional area. That's significant and surely effects the columns moments at that location.
You will be fine as long as the beam fits tight enough that the load is transfered through the beam and not just through the post.

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Old 07-12-2012, 03:03 PM   #17
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Beam for Deck


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You will be fine as long as the beam fits tight enough that the load is transfered through the beam and not just through the post.
I don't know that I agree with that.

I understand your thought on that, so that if you notch the post, by infilling the notch with the beam you have replaced the structural integrity.

But that isn't how wood works. Wood is a fiberous material. The majority of woods structural integrity comes from the fibers at the edges.

When speaking about a column moment, cutting that beam and infilling the area will not effect the vertical loading much, but the moments would be weakened in that area.

I am not saying which way is right or wrong, just that I don't that I agree that notching the column is better over a well thought out bolt pattern.
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Old 07-12-2012, 03:17 PM   #18
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Beam for Deck


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You need to checkout page 8 of Prescriptive Residential Deck Construction Guide for the 2009 International Residential Code. There are many discussions on this forum on why this is bad.
I see it, I just don't know that I agree with them.

When considering lateral loading, on the corner of that column that is left after notching.
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Old 07-12-2012, 11:17 PM   #19
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Beam for Deck


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Originally Posted by jcarlilesiu View Post
I see it, I just don't know that I agree with them.

When considering lateral loading, on the corner of that column that is left after notching.
No offense but I doubt the IRC gives a crap about if you agree or don't agree with them. Unless you have an engineers letter stating otherwise you will need to comply with the adopted codes.
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Old 07-12-2012, 11:40 PM   #20
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Beam for Deck


Everyone is talking about to notch or not to notch.Just wondering if you are using 2-2x's could you notch one into the post and than put the other on the face and bolts thru all.That way your not notching too much or using just bolts.Not to say its right but just a thought.I have done it all ways and still dont know which is right so i would like to know like from an enginner.
For some reason i cant ever download them pages from that IRC book.I would like to take a look at that but cant.
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Old 07-13-2012, 12:58 AM   #21
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Beam for Deck


I don't think I've ever looked at a set of plans that was stamped, signed, and dated showing details to notch an existing 6x6 post that is carrying a roof. For you guys to be suggesting it, seems as though it might be common where you're from.... I don't mind notching a 6x6 for a deck beam, but the top of the notch terminates at the top of the beam. So that's what you guys do even though it is supporting a roof? Still notch it like that? That's crazy.. Wouldn't it go deck post, post cap, beam, roof post base, post ??? Notching anything structural , unless it is terminated there, is a big no-no where I'm from.. .. I'm still waiting on how far the OP would like to cantilever from the house though.. He might want to come out 4 feet from the house and all of this talk could be redundant.. I still would like to know if others notch roof posts anyway.. Just for my own knowledge..... In a few years the IRC isn't gonna let ya notch anything, it will all be Simpson .
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Old 07-13-2012, 03:08 AM   #22
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Beam for Deck


Seems I stirred the pot by mentioning notching of a 6x6 post for a post-to-deck connection earlier in this post. Seems some have questioned my sanity, others seem to have been sipping the Kool-aid with me. I was describing the use of a prescriptive code document for the construction of a post-to-deck connection. I commented on various techniques for making this connection, but the notch seems to have caught some's attention. Please allow me to expand:

I do not notch post-to-roof beam connections.

I use a post-to-beam Simpson connector, usually a ACE6 for intermediate posts and AC6 for end posts.

For the post-to-deck connection I typically notch a 6x6 (no notch for 4x4) to accept the inner ply of a typical 2-ply drop beam with the post continuing down to a 10" sonotube (footing sized based upon load and soil bearing capacity). A 2x cleat is nailed to the post down to the sonotube to support the load of the outer ply. Post is connected to the sonotube with a Simpson ABU66Z standoff post base with anchor bolt(s) set. Drop beam is secured to the post with (2) 3/8" HDG through bolts. Again, code requirement is that all joists and beams bear upon a minimum of 1-1/2" of wood or metal (may need more so not to crush wood fibers).

Please check out detail 1A and 2 of the http://www.awc.org/publications/DCA/DCA6/DCA6-09.pdf on page 4. They actually show notching the post to accept two-plies. Also see detail 5 on page 6 for the same. See figure 8 on page 8 indicating the description I gave for the post-to-beam connection. Figure 9 on page 8 indicates a "prohibited beam to post connection" using only through bolts to secures 2x plies to the post.

Should I need more than a two-ply deck beam I will use 6x6 that terminates under the three-ply beam (Simpson connectors) then the 6x6 will continue from the top of the beam to the roof (more metal connectors). All decks 4' or more off the finish grade receive lateral bracing.

What people have to understand is the DCA6 publication is a prescriptive guide based upon the IRC, basically a cookie recipe. A licensed architect or professional engineer may differ their design of such structures from the prescriptive code by affixing their registration stamp and signature to their design. If you are not a licensed architect or professional engineer and follow the prescriptive guide you have complied with the code requirements and do not need engineering data to back up the design.

I hope this helps to explain my previous post. Sorry for any confusion.
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Last edited by GBrackins; 07-13-2012 at 03:10 AM.
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Old 07-13-2012, 07:55 AM   #23
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Beam for Deck


I have a project that we recently did where a dropped beam was notched into 1 side of a post, a flush beam was notched into the other side of a post and the post continued up to hold the roof cover we built. Notching is just fine, but in this particular case I would use flush hangers to hang the beam between the posts.
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Old 07-13-2012, 08:16 AM   #24
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Beam for Deck


Prescriptive guide covers free standing and ledger supported decks without roof only so it does not apply in this case. Of course, you can still use the Prescriptive Guide if the building inspector allows it, but the very first pages of the Guide explicitly limit direct application of the guide to uncovered decks with specific geometrical limitations, i.e. height of deck, and only certain allowable loads (i.e. Guide does not cover decks with hot tubs on it, for example).

As for notching a column for beams, this is very common, and is one of the allowed methods in the Prescriptive Guide (the other is use of certain brackets). The notching has no effect on the applied moment, which is entirely due to the loads on the column. Notching does have an effect on the moment capacity of the column, and certainly affects the buckling capacity of the column, but the Prescriptive Guide takes buckling into effect when describing allowable notching procedure. Note that the Guide typically assumes doubled 2x beam members, so the notching is typically 3 inches deep on a 5-1/2 inch wide post (that is why the post cannot be a 4x4). The reason buckling is not generally a problem for Guide compliant decks is that the vertical load on the post is limited due to the fact that the Guide does NOT apply to decks with roofs, and does not apply to decks with tall posts, so the authors of the Guide have determined that for decks which fall under applicable guidelines, buckling of a notched 6x6 post to accept a doubled 2x beam member is not a problem.

For decks which fall outside of Guide parameters, such as this one, individual calculations are required for all members. Typically horizontal members are going to need bending computations, vertical members will need buckling computations, and connections need to be checked for moment capacity and shear. This is usually done by an engineer, but in some cases the building inspector simply ignores the fact that the deck is not with Guide parameters, and allows design based on Guide parameters.
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Old 07-13-2012, 03:50 PM   #25
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Beam for Deck


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Originally Posted by robertcdf View Post
I have a project that we recently did where a dropped beam was notched into 1 side of a post, a flush beam was notched into the other side of a post and the post continued up to hold the roof cover we built. Notching is just fine, but in this particular case I would use flush hangers to hang the beam between the posts.
Iam a little slow and i know different parts of the country people use different definations.But when you are talking about flush hangers is that joist hangers?
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Old 07-13-2012, 08:56 PM   #26
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Beam for Deck


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Originally Posted by scottktmrider View Post
Iam a little slow and i know different parts of the country people use different definations.But when you are talking about flush hangers is that joist hangers?
http://www.strongtie.com/products/connectors/hucq.asp

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