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-   -   Beam build, joint not over post (http://www.diychatroom.com/f19/beam-build-joint-not-over-post-128584/)

WillK 01-02-2012 09:52 PM

Beam build, joint not over post
 
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I've had 2 questions about beams, but they have both been about what I'm calling beam #2 because I'm building 4 beams, and if I call the northernmost beam #1 and the southernmost beam #4 then the 2 questions I asked previously related to #2 which I had been working on.

This question will relate to beam #1 which I had actually start building first, I started the first 3 boards after the first 2 footings were dug and poured, and then I moved to interior footings because there was a lot of obstructions to deal with before I could dig more footings for beam #1.

My plans specified 7' on center spacing for my posts. I knew for beam #1 that my 4th post would be right at the plumbing stack, so I planned to put the 4th post at 4'8" spacing to the 3rd post, same spacing between 4th and 5th post and 5th and 6th post, then resume 7' spacing to the end. I cut the 3rd board accordingling before I had placed the post under the end.

Now as I removed obstructions, dug and poured footings, I ended up doing things differently. Spacing between post 3 and 4 is more than the 4'8" planned, so the end of the board is not centered over the post. In the picture below, the end of the board in question is shown with a red arrow pointing to it.

Before I continue building the beam, I wanted to ask if I can use this as is by using a tie plate such as Simpson TP57-R http://www.strongtie.com/ftp/catalog...-2011-p187.pdf or if I need to scrap the beam and start over.


Additional info: This is a triple 2x10 beam. Of the 3 boards, the board in question would be the outermost board. The center board does not have a joint at post #4, and is not in place yet, and the inner board would have a joint at post #4 which would be placed such that it is centered over the post.

robertcdf 01-02-2012 10:02 PM

Honestly only an engineer can answer properly. I would not rely on a plate without an engineers stamp (and buying new lumber is WAY cheaper) so I would just buy some new 2x10

WillK 01-02-2012 10:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by robertcdf (Post 810651)
Honestly only an engineer can answer properly. I would not rely on a plate without an engineers stamp (and buying new lumber is WAY cheaper) so I would just buy some new 2x10

By the time I finished typing it out I figured this would end up being another case of hearing what I probably already know I need to do to make it right. When I run the numbers on the lumber I'd need to buy to replace it, it's $32. At least I didn't buy the other $75 in replacement lumber yet, so I still only have 1 trip with lumber sticking out the back of whatever I take to haul it.

abracaboom 01-03-2012 01:49 AM

You said on a different thread that you were gluing and nailing together those 3-ply beams. Is that still the case? I believe that if they are glued together and bolted together properly, you don't need to worry if only one of the joints sits on the post.

Since I cannot guarantee my answer, I offer you a cheaper, easiest alternative to buying and hauling more wood: pour an extra, smaller footing under the end of that 2x10; and support it with an extra, smaller post.

ddawg16 01-03-2012 07:19 AM

My vote is that you get the right size lumber. If the inspector comes in and sees the short board, even with proper simpson hardware, he may be inclined to start looking for other 'short cuts' (pun intended).

No reason to open yourself up to more detailed inspections......besides, at the end of the day, you will be glad you did....

WillK 01-03-2012 08:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by abracaboom (Post 810790)
You said on a different thread that you were gluing and nailing together those 3-ply beams. Is that still the case? I believe that if they are glued together and bolted together properly, you don't need to worry if only one of the joints sits on the post.

Since I cannot guarantee my answer, I offer you a cheaper, easiest alternative to buying and hauling more wood: pour an extra, smaller footing under the end of that 2x10; and support it with an extra, smaller post.

Another post would actually still be resting on the same footing, but close to the edge. It would come out more expensive actually, even if I was pouring a new footing, because I'm using $20 post brackets at the bottom of the post, the footings take about $20 of concrete and there's another $10 of post brackets to attach the beam at the top.

And yes, I'm using glue and a specified schedule of nailing at 3 places every 16".

WillK 01-03-2012 08:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ddawg16 (Post 810853)
My vote is that you get the right size lumber. If the inspector comes in and sees the short board, even with proper simpson hardware, he may be inclined to start looking for other 'short cuts' (pun intended).

No reason to open yourself up to more detailed inspections......besides, at the end of the day, you will be glad you did....

After having some more time to think, starting from new really gets to be an even better option. I had started my beam build doing all 3 boards of thickness working from the front back. The exterior face of the beam is close enough to the crawlspace exterior wall (I use the term loosely) and barely allows enough space for my nailgun.

The problem is that I don't have enough space where I have temporary beams. My plan *was* that I'd have to come back and finish nailing those places after the temporary beams were removed. With 3 boards, I can't flip the beam around because I don't have enough space at the front wall of the house where 2 layers of 2x4 are under the joist.

Based on what I've learned from trial and error, I've refined my build technique. What I will be doing is building up 2 layers of boards before flipping them up into position and adding the 3rd layer with the beam in place. This should make the beam easier to handle and keep straight, and it will make it easier to access all the places I need to nail.

I was also originally going to try to build the beam then place footings to line up with joints. At this point I have footings in place with posts, so I'm going the other route - building the beams to line up the joints with the posts.

WillK 01-03-2012 08:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ddawg16 (Post 810853)
No reason to open yourself up to more detailed inspections......besides, at the end of the day, you will be glad you did....

I also wanted to say that my building inspector has been pretty easy going... She's actually been the only one that's gone into the crawl space, but being that this joint was facing the exterior wall, there would have been a really high likelihood that it would have been missed. Really, that's why I wanted to ask about this here and ask about it now - if this was something that needed to be fixed, I did not want to count on the error being caught or okayed by the building inspection.

robertcdf 01-03-2012 10:31 AM

Sometimes you can get away with things... But if you get caught you spend a ton of time taking it apart and redoing it, in the end you wish you'd redone it right away when it was easy


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