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Old 07-15-2009, 01:40 PM   #16
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Bathroom tile question


I must be missing something here. In several jurisdictions here we actually have a liner and drain inspection. The liner must slope to the drain. The liner must go up the wall (behind the wall board) 10". The liner must hold water (while the inspector is on-site). The liner must drain to the drain's weep holes when the plug is partially pulled. I don't think Redgard can meet any of the requirements (i.e. how is he creating a slope to the drain with wall board and Redgard?)

Redgard is appropriate for the shower bench and the joint between the bench and the wall but I cannot invision using it as a pan liner!
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Old 07-15-2009, 01:50 PM   #17
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I don't know where you are located but here it is illegal to perform services, repairs, or upgrades on real property owned without some kind of signed written agreement describing the work, obligations, and rights of both parties. The contract also must have the license number of the contractor and physical contact information. Legally you are just as responsible as he is. Some states do allow verbal contracts and if you can prove them they may be binding. However the work must still be performed in a workmanlike manner and free from defect (it's not), and must be performed by someone licensed to do so.

Again I would advise you to get rid of him and get somebody in there who knows what they are doing. The longer you wait the more money you are throwing away.
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Old 07-15-2009, 02:07 PM   #18
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Agreed, Redguard is great for walls but it is not for floors EVER.

Some jurisdictions require inspections of the drain pan system, some do not. The residential code doesn't really deal with it, so in my experience most in this area jurisdictions do not. You'd have to check to see if your municipality requires pan inspections. Since you're doing plumbing work a permit would be required by code anyway...

Aumanpj, not to be critical (so please don't take it that way)...But you're learning a valuable lesson about how not to hire contractors. Check references, VERIFY insurance with the carrier by calling them, require permits, get a written contract with a total price and materials/procedures and don't pay up front.

If this guy had any idea what he is doing, he wouldn't be suggesting Redguard for the floor or building it the way he is. Wonder what else he's done wrong? Sounds like the kind of guy that hangs shower tile with mastic to me!
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Old 07-15-2009, 02:48 PM   #19
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Bathroom tile question


Redgard can not be attached to a typical shower floor drain. A guaranteed seal of the two elements is impossible. There is a method prescribed for such an installation but the truth is the method is in question and this guy isn't doing that anyway from what I can see so far.

The two acceptable methods from jurisdiction to jurisdiction is either a vinyl pan liner of 30-40mils thickness used in conjunction with a clamping-style shower floor drain, or, a vinyl sheet product named KERDI that requires the use of their own specially designed floor drain.

In the first case two concrete floors are cast-in-place. The first is a pre-slope to which the pan liner is applied and then a second cast to create the final slope.

With the KERDI method, a single cast of concrete is required and the special KERDI Drain is cast into this sloping concrete. The KERDI membrane is then attached to the surface and over the drain creating a watertight floor application.

THERE IS NO WAY a guy can use cement board and paint it with any liquid waterproofing membrane product such as Redgard and create a waterproof shower receptor. It doesn't work like that. Seasonal atmospheric changes would be enough to move some joints around and breach the waterproofing.

If this is on the second floor of your home - STOP THIS GUY IMMEDIATELY.

You are in big trouble.

Last edited by Bud Cline; 07-15-2009 at 02:53 PM.
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Old 07-15-2009, 02:54 PM   #20
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I'm going to bow out of this thread for now. My expertise is not in getting out of agreements. I have dismissed several subcontractors from our job sites and it usually goes like this:

Me: "Pack-up and get off the site!"

Sub: "I'm going to bill you for the time I have invested!"

Me: "That's OK! But recognize that billing me and getting paid are two separate issues!"

Good Luck!

I'll watch the thread from a far to see how it comes out.

Paul

P.S. Does anyone know how do I get a signature line?
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Old 07-15-2009, 05:04 PM   #21
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Now there's a surprise. Will you allow the guy to continue?

Simply ask him which standard he is following to make this installation. If he can't show you something along these lines from the Tile Council of North America, the American National Standards Institute, the Uniform Plumbing Code, the Uniform Building Code, then he has no leg to stand on and shouldn't expect to be paid for his malpractice.

If he is correct in his procedures and it is you that is misunderstanding what is being done and misinterpreting his endeavor then that is understandable and we can all stand down.

Without your input this thread likely won't go on much longer.
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Old 07-15-2009, 10:59 PM   #22
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Bathroom tile question


Hello Bud,

I'm sorry, I don't understand your statement, "Without your input this thread likely won't go on much longer." What input do you need or did you request? I'm sorry if I missed it.

I'm not yet sure what I will do in this circumstance. This person came very highly recommended and I'm shocked, dealing with a lot of new information, and processing options forward. I'm also not the only decision-maker in this situation. I am negotiating with my fiancee.

I have paid this person quite a bit of money up front and he still has to make delivery on some pretty expensive materials. If I fire him the job will likely have to stand still for many, many months until further financing can be established. I don't know what someone would charge me to come in and fix all this but I'm guessing it would be more expensive to fix than to do correctly from the get go.

This contractor says he's done 74/77 bathroom remodels with tile work and that he's pretty well followed the same model each time. Having come so highly recommended... I'm torn.

I sure do appreciate everyone's input on this. It does help and I thank you. As a decision comes to bare I will surely debrief in the thread.
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Old 07-16-2009, 06:41 AM   #23
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Here is a simple solution for you. Hire a general contractor to manage the job for you. This will add approximately 10% to the cost of your project. Let your your current contractor know work will stop until you do so. Then let him know he will be dealing directly with the G.C. from that point on. Once he realizes he is going to get called on everything, he'll either start doing the job correctly or want to negotiate a way out for himself.
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Old 07-16-2009, 07:05 AM   #24
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Let's see some photographs of what's being done. There is something very wrong with this whole situation.
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Old 07-16-2009, 07:43 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bud Cline View Post
There is something very wrong with this whole situation.
That qualifies as the DIYchatroom.com understatement of the month.
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Old 07-16-2009, 09:24 AM   #26
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Bathroom tile question


I have stopped work on the bathroom. I have requested the contractor complete finishing touches on our closet and window installation. He has Friday, Saturday and Sunday off but we will have a face-to-face discussion on Sunday night or Monday morning (as of yet undecided). I am now in search of someone to come and do this correctly.

Does anyone know of a publication that details the basic step by step process of custom tile shower install? Perhaps there is something published by the Tile Council of North America or the American National Standards Institute? It might be good for me to have the official publication in hand when I have this face-to-face with my contractor.
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Old 07-16-2009, 09:29 AM   #27
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Go to JohnBridge.com
He has links to a few books I believe. His site is so informative, it may be all you need. Good Luck
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Old 07-16-2009, 09:40 AM   #28
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You can find information from the following resources:

2001 handbook for ceramic tile installation (Tile Council of America) (www.bnibooks.com)
American National Standards Institute (ANSI)(www.bnibooks.com)
Residential Construction Performance Guidelines (www.bnibooks.com)
The project resource manual (www.bnibooks.com)
Means Residential and Light Commercial Construction Standards ( Available at Home Depot/ Lowes/ Borders)
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Old 07-16-2009, 02:49 PM   #29
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Here is everything you need to know about building the typical classic shower receptor. This is by the book instructions with pictures offered by a pro in Ontario.

http://www.ontariotile.com/preslope.html

You don't need John Bridge for this. John will want you to "BUY THE BOOK" he has written.

To learn more about building the other style shower receptor go to Schluter Systems website and look at their videos and instructions for their KERDI shower.

http://www.schlutersystems.com

This is the best any of us can do for you since you don't seem to want to or can't provide us with any photographs.
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Old 07-16-2009, 03:36 PM   #30
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Hello Bud,

That is an excellent website. Thank you! Could you briefly explain the difference between the typical classic shower receptor and a KERDI shower?
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