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Old 07-24-2009, 06:30 PM   #1
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Bathroom remodel


I have gutted my tiny bathroom and am in the process of trying to put things back together. The tub is in. I had Durock installed around the tub/shower area. In the rest of the bathroom I was going to install greenboard. The drywall guy I hired installed the Durock around the tub, but put regular drywall everywhere else. My husband takes long hot showers in the morning and this creates lots of steam (which he loves). I am sick about this :-( It has been mudded and sanded. I am going to put ceramic tile from inside the tub to the ceiling, and approx 3/4 of the way up the wall everywhere else. Will the regular drywall stand up to this? Is there anything I can put on the raw drywall (Kilz oil?) to prevent moisture from penetrating? The regular drywall is behind the sink and toilet, and another wall. My drywall guy assures me everything will be fine, but I am a skeptic. Any help you can give me will be appreciated. Donna

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Old 07-25-2009, 03:19 AM   #2
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your drywall guy should replace with green board or even the newer purple board that does not have the paper on it. and really stops mold.

either rip and replace better in the long run. or zinser 123 2 coats then paint semi gloss sherwin williams paint.

I am sure the drywall guy said it would be fine,,, because he does not know better and does not want to redo it on his dime which is what he should do... unless you bought the drywall and told him to install it... then it is your dime.

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Old 07-25-2009, 06:13 AM   #3
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Drywall behind tile is OK anywhere but in the shower. Is there an exhaust fan?? If not, there should be, and it should exhaust outside, not into the attic space. For the proper size, figure the square footage of the room and multiply by 1.5, that is the CFM needed to do a proper venting job.
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Old 07-25-2009, 06:27 AM   #4
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Drywall behind tile is OK anywhere but in the shower. Is there an exhaust fan?? If not, there should be, and it should exhaust outside, not into the attic space. For the proper size, figure the square footage of the room and multiply by 1.5, that is the CFM needed to do a proper venting job.
maybe I misunderstood around the tub tile area... I thought he put durock where the tile is.... if he did not... then remove the drywall and put backerboard tape the seams thinset them and then tile.

and the backerboard goes over the tub lip not behind it.
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Old 07-25-2009, 08:43 AM   #5
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If a proper "waterproof" shower was in your guy's mind, he's doing fine. Greenboard won't solve anything. A fan would be needed too - plus Kerdi NOW.

But I didn't read anything about "waterproofing" so maybe Kerdi isn't even considered. If not, then this is a 5 year shower and we'll all see yopu back here within that timeframe asking why you have mould...
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Old 07-25-2009, 08:48 AM   #6
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I always put up densarmor drywall (fiberglass faced) anywhere moisture is involved (basements/kitchens/bathrooms/garages). The bath surrounds must be done in densarmour (fiberglass faced), durrorock, hardie board, or similar moisture resistant sheathing application will determine type by code.
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Old 07-25-2009, 12:09 PM   #7
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Coincidentally, there is a thread - just started a week or so ago in the Flooring forum - about a guy who has developed the problems we all know about i.e. a shower stall with no waterproofing and done improperly.

The state-of-the-art of shower building now puts the lifetime of a properly-waterproofed stall at something like 30-40 years without problems of water leaking and mould. Without waterproofing systems showers will last around 5 years before you have to post a thread like his...
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Old 07-25-2009, 01:35 PM   #8
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I always put up densarmor drywall (fiberglass faced) anywhere moisture is involved (basements/kitchens/bathrooms/garages). The bath surrounds must be done in densarmour (fiberglass faced), durrorock, hardie board, or similar moisture resistant sheathing application will determine type by code.

Hey Ari, I've used this a couple of times in the last couple of years (or my drywall co. did), and it needed a level 5 finish. I've tried to push it for full basements, but the cost difference with the level 5 finish has been a no-go, so just used in kitchen/bathrooms (with hardieboard in shower areas).
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Old 07-25-2009, 01:54 PM   #9
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Hey Ari, I've used this a couple of times in the last couple of years (or my drywall co. did), and it needed a level 5 finish. I've tried to push it for full basements, but the cost difference with the level 5 finish has been a no-go, so just used in kitchen/bathrooms (with hardieboard in shower areas).
Your right, the level 5 can be a hard sell for some customers. Its really nominal as far as finishing costs go. Normally when I explain the benefits of the densarmor vs. the extra cost for finishing they are O.K. with it. With all the hype about mold these days and the ambulance chasers looking to file suit it can give people some piece of mind. We better not get to off topic here though, we already got in trouble once this week for that.
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Old 07-25-2009, 01:59 PM   #10
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yeah, you're right, but thanks for the input.

Jay
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Old 07-26-2009, 04:45 PM   #11
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Thanks guys, this is such a great forum. I am in over my head and I appreciate all of the advice. I didn't buy the drywall. I told the drywall guy durock in the shower area, and green board everywhere else in the bathroom. My father lives with us, and he has dementia. I was in the middle of a crisis with him, and when I looked in the bathroom they had the drywall hung. I was assured over and over again this would be fine. My gut told me it's not fine. After reading the posts I inspected the job more closely. The durock does not extend over the lip of the new tub. This is a leak just waiting to happen. It also has 1/2" gaps between sheets. Because I am a novice, I don't know if they should be butted up tighter.

I came to the conclusion I have got to start over. I want this job done properly so it will last a long time. Someone suggested purple board, and I googled that and found a product called DensShield (gypsum based board by gp). Sounds like good stuff, and there is a mom and pop builder supply store a couple of miles from my house that carries it. Maybe they can recommend an installer. Would doing the whole bathroom in it be overkill? Again, I am tiling the whole shower up to the ceiling, and about 2/3 of the way up the wall everywhere else. My husband takes long hot showers, and creates clouds of steam, which he loves. We do have an exhause fan, but my husband vented it into the attic .........stupid :-( He never uses it anyway. I will use the formula someone provided and buy one that is strong enough. The trick is getting him to use it. Someone also suggested Kerdi NOW. I will see what they say at the builder supply store.

Again, I just want this job to last, but like everyone else in this economy, I am on a budget. The way I figure it, I can cut corners now and be sorry in 5 years, or do it the right way. I should of mentioned we did have some rot in the subfloor and studs. I had all of the rotted wood replaced. Thanks for all of your time, I appreciate your help. Donna
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Old 07-26-2009, 05:54 PM   #12
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I think you're on the right track...

Look, there are a number of us here who do showers and steam rooms professionally and there isn't one who hasn't seen the light in re waterproofing showers. There's even an on-line book on building your own waterproof shower and a video of how the guy does it. And all of us have a fairly good handle on what you should and shouldn't do to get yourself a shower that will outlast, well, some of us here. LOL

The challenge is to manage the water and the water vapour; once you've controlled those 2 elements of a shower you're good to go. I personally prefer the Schluter system that involves a shower tray, the waterproofing fabric for the walls and floor and the drain. You buy all of these as a kit for about $400. The tile on top of that. Now these kits don't apply everywhere - but they are an example of how a waterproof shower can be built just as easily as a non-waterproof one, but the waterproof one will last 40 years, the other 5...that's saving money IMO!

In fact Home Depot carries the Schluter line of Kerdi products for showers so what I would do in your shoes is find an installer who knows about "Kerdi" (the shower system) and ask him to quote.

Why I referred to drywall earlier is that a waterproof shower can be built with ordinary drywall on the shower walls; not greenboard, just regular drywall. Another option is using DenShield or a cement-based board for increased density as a substrate for tiles. But a good installer will know all this, a hack won't.

A good waterproof shower involves other systems too like a good fan, vented outdoors, that is appropriately sized for your room and attached to a timer that lets it run at least 20 minutes after a shower. It also involves the drain system and floor pan which are critical. It may involves a good mould resistant paint in the rest of the room...but again a good installer knows that.

But all these elements are chump change compared to the cost of demo and reinstall a new shower in a few years because you have mould. To give you an idea, we do a shower in about 4 days, give or take, so it's not that expensive. There's also a good bb forum called John Bridge that discusses showers pretty well every day; there you'll find everything you as the HO should know about the shower - and the contractor you hire.

Good luck - and keep us informed!

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