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Old 03-07-2010, 10:39 AM   #16
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bad sagging floor


yes snav, thanks. - Here's a pic of the furness and where i need to come across with support, as you can see i have little room to drop ducting, but as little as i know on DIY, I dont know how i would lower that round heat duct,[make sqaure and lower it, ??] BECAUSE I SHOULD come across at least that far, to level.--Also i never worked with ducting, and wondered how i would lower the square one next to the round one.--P.S. Main heat duct has very little room between floor and furness.---DAMM,, WHILE i was down there i see gas line is laying right across heat duct.- luv to smack who ever did all the plumbing
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Old 03-07-2010, 04:32 PM   #17
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bad sagging floor


So any thoughts now on the joist length and heat ducting
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Old 03-07-2010, 07:50 PM   #18
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bad sagging floor


By any chance did this area use to have a wall?

As someone else mentioned the 2x6 joists on the ceiling (in the center) seem to have notches cut out - which is usually done to rest on a girder or a sill of some type, Obviously there is no girder or sill present, leaving me to wonder about that.

I'm biting my tongue on my thoughts beyond my safety advise and so forth - I'm not a pro and I'd prefer that others who have more experience than me advise you and give you suggestions instead of me confusing you. However, I do have several other ideas but they all seem to just clutter your space.
Maybe it's just the fact that I'm a Mom- but my first thought is "how can I declutter the area, first"

If you don't want to (or don't need to) drop the entire duct work system you could just remove the area which is completely in your way - just cut it in a few areas, remove the cut section, work and repair, and then replace the removed section - definitely less work than my previous suggestion.

I'd still relocate all the electrical, plumbing and gas-line to the walls, though - I'm sure you can't imagine there being enough room but you'd be surprised how tidy things can be if they're bundled properly and given brackets to run through instead of being strung through your joists.
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Last edited by Snav; 03-07-2010 at 08:36 PM.
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Old 03-08-2010, 03:00 PM   #19
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bad sagging floor


thanks for reply,,snav.-Far as i know there was no wall, -Just seems who ever built house, thought it was going to be a barn.-lol,, - I asked a few people here locally, and they seem to think that with the house so old, i could get away with running 2x4's together and then just use enough jack supports,-- as the celler is a mess anyways it wouldnt bother me if thier there.- im going to go from south wall, and across joist, to the joist you can see in my last pic, jast pass the square heat duct. [before round one] - Ill repost pic's and also the the south side of where support will run
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Old 03-08-2010, 05:21 PM   #20
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bad sagging floor


sagging floors? i've seen this quite a bit before, due to the fact I framed out a development that was done on top of HORRIBLE dirtwork. Here's what we did, we found the biggest problem places(most of our's were beams) and jacked them up VIA a bottle jack, found pretty much anywhere. Once we used the bottle jack and a stringline pulled tight(to check how straight it was) and got the floor to being straight/level(level sometimes doesn't count in old houses, as some "settle" to either side, and then we cut a new post to the size of the pad(it was in a crawlspace) from the beam. I wouldn't brace up just one joist though. A good solution would be to nail 2-2x6s together like an =, then jack them up to where you want them(if your sag is a bowl in the middle would be best) you don't have to do this little by little, the change is going to be the same whether your sag is 6" or just 1". Proper bracing is key though. You have to make something that is going to hold, and hold for a while. Putting a wall if it's in a living space would honestly do the job the best way possible. To get everything out of the way, reroute it up into the joist wherever it is needed.
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Old 03-08-2010, 10:23 PM   #21
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bad sagging floor


Taking out the sag is one thing, but you also need to consider the long-term fix that must follow. You cannot trust your entire house and self to the safety of a super jack.
I'm nervous looking at your pictures - I wouldn't be able to sleep sound knowing what's under the floor. (or what's not under the floor).

If I were you in your house I'd clear all the clutter up and then build a new support system in with the old one by adding in a more than adequate beam in the center (I'd use two 2x12's that are sistered directly to the sides of the old beam as long as their footings are adequately supported on the ends. And then use 2x10's or 2x12's as joists which would be attached to the new center beam - not even bothering with sistering, just put them in directly next to the old ones and then remove the old ones.
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Old 03-09-2010, 04:15 PM   #22
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thanks snav,--- but i think thats more than im willing or able to handle, so i think ill stick with raising just the 11' cection that has sag.-- i didnt post pic's of where the orig front part of house was built and 30 years ?? later the back half was added on.- im posting some bad pic's now on where orig front section of house ended and the support beam on fondation is, and show what i found,- rott or bug's ate away foundation, - and i pic off how they joined new section onto old -wait to you look at these. -the third pic is how they joined second half of house to bad beam using nails and yes theres a big gap there -- oh boy
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Old 03-09-2010, 05:43 PM   #23
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If you're not planning on doing the necessary work yourself then perhaps you should consider hiring someone to do it for you, or at least help out.

It's not too complicated or above your ability. It's a very basic thing, really - I'm restructuring my house room by room by myself. Believe me, it takes time, patience and money but it is possible to do a little bit at a time and get it done.
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Old 03-09-2010, 06:35 PM   #24
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bad sagging floor


i here what your saying, but being new to this diy, -i dont under stand how i would add the new supports to my existing beam with out removing joist,where they meet and go into old beam and also where my joist end at end of house there is only room for about 6" above concrete wall and flooring .- ps, did you happen to see my mess at end of basement where old part of house meets newer half ?? , - im in a real mess there.
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Old 03-10-2010, 01:13 AM   #25
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bad sagging floor


the floor joists should sit one edge on the foundation, the other end on TOP of a support beam, which is held up by the posts. you have all the joists just meeting on one level with nails... not much support.

all they're saying is nail some 2x6's together to make a sort of square beam, slap it up there and support it with posts, jack posts or even 4x4s. it may not be the best way to do it, but its better than doing nothing. it will give you some rigidity in the floor.
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Old 03-10-2010, 08:51 AM   #26
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thanks johnny boy, i here exactly what your saying, but it sounded like SNAV, was saying to add the supports to my center beam on each side, to reinforce, then add in the new joist, ? but i didnt understand how i would add this support to beam without removing joist as they go into beam ??, Do i cut out knotches in the new supports to go around old joist to add the support ? - seems this would weeken what im attemting to do. - IM getting mixed up here,, as i orig wanted to raise joist at east end of house that are sagging, and leave old center beam that is jack up all ready
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Old 03-11-2010, 08:28 AM   #27
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Your added-in beam will be underneath the existing beam - I'll sketch up something for you and post it for some visual clarity.
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Old 03-11-2010, 09:45 AM   #28
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Here's a visual - not the most accurate but I hope it helps. (I used sketchup from google) - this is how I would do it if I were dealing with your situation. I am no pro - but at least in my area this solution would be up to code and is actually quite similar to what i've done on my house.

Here's your floor support - notice how your joists have notches cut out where they meet the center beam?


In those notches you can put in a new beam - one on each side of the center beam.
Between those two notches, where they extend down below the center beam, you should have room for a 4x4 beam.



Ok - so that's it for the center beam, it's basic - the ends of the beam will have no wood to attach to because it is in addition - no in replacement - of your current supports. You can use cement anchors (maybe) to attach it to the wall - or extend the outside surround beam down with a 2x10 added in . . . somewhat like in the next step:

Now - if you decide to do the joists, as well, rather than just try to firm up the center of the floor like you've been discussing, then this following stuff would need to be done first so you'll have adequate support for your center beam:
Here is your surround beams that are on the outside of your room (I'm imagining this is basically how it looks - simple)


So to install new joists you need to make the outside surround support adequate enough:
To do this - between each joist you should cut a 2x6, hammer it up into place and attach it to the old outside surround beam (it's called a girder, actually)
All new girder pieces should be the same depth as your new joists (if your new joists are 2x10 then your girders should be 2x10)


After you thicken up and fill in the girder you can then add in new joists. These, here, have a notch to sit on the new center beam and are nudged flush with the new outside girder.
I have imaged here 2x10's - they will run to the bottom of the new center which is the thickness of a 2x10, as well.
Remember- your ADDING to - not replacing - so all old pieces will stay where they are.


However, if you don't have enough room to maneuver a notched beam into place you fill in the notched area of the center beam with 2x4's - shown in orange:
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Last edited by Snav; 03-11-2010 at 09:51 AM.
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Old 03-11-2010, 02:19 PM   #29
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bad sagging floor


Thanks SNAV,, for the pics, it all makes perfect since now after seeing pic's.-- im going to attempt adding support to center beam, and add the girders and leave in the old joist.- and in my sagging part im going to attempt to raise floor that is sagging near furness.- thanks alot.----NOW ? I got to convince the wife that doing this this spring is more important than adding a up stairs bathroom.- but she insisting on one, even with the cobbed up job someone did with plumbing in basement.- - should do all i said first.-- P.S. Not all the joist have the cut outs so the ones that dont i assume i just cut them into them.- thanks alot again
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Old 03-11-2010, 05:14 PM   #30
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bad sagging floor


Just a question. what is above? is it just one room? is taking up the floor boards out of the question?
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