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-   -   Azek with hidden fastener or Gossen? (http://www.diychatroom.com/f19/azek-hidden-fastener-gossen-142509/)

Npkr01 05-03-2012 06:35 AM

Azek with hidden fastener or Gossen?
 
Hello,

My decking contractor gave me a proposal for replacement with installation of a 450 sq ft Azek deck using hidden fasteners last June 2011. We never got around to proceeding with the job until about a month ago when I contacted him to give us an updated proposal. He came back with an upcharge, not unexpected, for the price of Azek which he said had had 4 price increases since last June with a 12% to 15% increase in price in total.

However, he is now telling me that the hidden fastener he would use is cortex screws, which I never wanted. I am almost certain that we had discussed other hidden fasteners that did not involve perforating the top surface of the deck boards last year. He is trying to get me to switch to Gossen Weatherready to use clip on hidden fasteners becasue he says they are grooved. He says the decking is also cheaper.

Is there no clip-on hidden fastener to use with Azek?

Is the Gossen Weatherready equivalent to Azek in appearance and quality?

Does the price increase seem reasonable?

I was set on using this guy but now I don't know if I need to look elsewhere.

Thank you in advance for any information and feedback you can give me.

CAMOmgr 05-03-2012 09:31 AM

CAMO Hidden
 
May be a little late for your project but check out camofasteners.com approved by both Gossen and Azek for use with their deckboards. It's an inexpensive side entry system - no clip.

robertcdf 05-03-2012 09:41 AM

So prices should just stay the same forever? I get price increases all year long for all kinds of different products used in a project, I might get an increase on the hangers tomorrow, and next week get an increase in the cost of posts, etc.

I've used AZEK but we also use a steel frame so we can make ANY decking a hidden fastener install. Personally I prefer Fiberon Horizon as it is one of the best looking boards available (avatar pic has Fiberon Horizon in "IPE")

joecaption 05-03-2012 09:46 AM

PVC is a by product of petrolium, and what happened to the gas prices?
Just the price of PVC coil stock has about doubled in the past 4 or 5 years.

Npkr01 05-03-2012 04:13 PM

I'm not disputing that a price increase was necessary, just asking if the degree of increase seemed reasonable- it probably is. We like this guy and want to use him for our install.

My main concern is that he seems to be switching fasteners to one that perforates the surface (and thus will not truly be hidden) and is offering an alternative that I'm not familiar with (Gossen) if I want real hidden fasteners. Does anyone have experience with Gossen Weatherready?

AtlanticWBConst. 05-03-2012 07:08 PM

First off: YES, there have been significant, multiple, price increases on ALL PVC products since June 2011. We work with a lot of PVC products all year long, so I know this for a fact. The increase is truthful, and should be understood and accepted. It is what it is.

The Cortex system is a screw & plug system for AZEK. The plugs match the decking = they are the same material. The system works great. You cannot see the screws or the plugs when installed. Its the system I would suggest with AZEK.


Not the clearest picture, but here is an example of the plugs. The Home Owners loved the plug system and were amazed at how it works (essentially invisible plugs):

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...T/DSC03397.jpg

woodworkbykirk 05-03-2012 07:58 PM

any time you get a quote and decide to hold off for a while before going forward with a project you can pretty much guarentee that when you do sign the contract the price will change. we have this quite often and more often than not the new price is 20% higher. be it material price increases, labour costs and or increased costs of running a business. if someone is ready to go right away we give them a fixed price but if they are just looking for a quote we give a rough budget to go by

Npkr01 05-03-2012 08:02 PM

AtlanticWB-

Beautiful deck. Could you tell me what color it is? Maybe this hidden fastener system will be OK. I'll have to see one installed this way in person out in the sun- our deck will be have little shade. Thank you for the comment and photo.

AtlanticWBConst. 05-03-2012 09:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Npkr01 (Post 913884)
AtlanticWB-

Beautiful deck. Could you tell me what color it is? Maybe this hidden fastener system will be OK. I'll have to see one installed this way in person out in the sun- our deck will be have little shade. Thank you for the comment and photo.

I believe that it was the Arbor Collection line of AZEK deck boards, and was the Acacia color. Its a bit more expensive than the more common Harvest line, but with the color combination, it is a very nice looking deck board.

CT River Bldrs 05-04-2012 11:30 AM

AZEK/Gossen
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Npkr01 (Post 913379)
Hello,

My decking contractor gave me a proposal for replacement with installation of a 450 sq ft Azek deck using hidden fasteners last June 2011. We never got around to proceeding with the job until about a month ago when I contacted him to give us an updated proposal. He came back with an upcharge, not unexpected, for the price of Azek which he said had had 4 price increases since last June with a 12% to 15% increase in price in total.

However, he is now telling me that the hidden fastener he would use is cortex screws, which I never wanted. I am almost certain that we had discussed other hidden fasteners that did not involve perforating the top surface of the deck boards last year. He is trying to get me to switch to Gossen Weatherready to use clip on hidden fasteners becasue he says they are grooved. He says the decking is also cheaper.

Is there no clip-on hidden fastener to use with Azek?

Is the Gossen Weatherready equivalent to Azek in appearance and quality?

Does the price increase seem reasonable?

I was set on using this guy but now I don't know if I need to look elsewhere.

Thank you in advance for any information and feedback you can give me.

Not sure what part of the country you reside at but here in New England I have not notice that type of price increases. We utilize many deck products including the two you mention. AZEK did have a price increase last year but I am not aware of 3 additional ones??? Gossen also (in my area) had an increase as well.
Gossen, again in this area has always been cheaper than AZEK however we use AZEK more than Gossen. We use a fastener system called "HidFast" to deliver a hidden fastener look for our clients. There is also a system called "Camo" and "Tiger Claw" that work well with AZEK Deck. Gossen is grooved and you need a clip product to secure it. We tend to lean away from grooved deck products since you are "floating" the boards to the joists not securing directly through the deck board into the joist.

Good luck with your decision

AtlanticWBConst. 05-04-2012 06:04 PM

I am in New England as well. I have seen at least 2 price increases in the rough time frame the OP listed. This was with PVC in general. The pricing the OP's contracter used for a June quote, could also be from an older price list. That could put the prices to possibly 3 changes.

Also, we cannot speak for what the prices were, where the OP's Contractor buys his materials (His Supplier of choice).

To the OP: Realize that AZEK is the "premium brand" PVC and tends to outprice other PVC brands. So much so, that the Lumber Supplier we standardly use for our general building & construction materials, no longer stocks it (as trim boards), and switched to a less expensive PVC made by Wolf.

dvatt 05-04-2012 08:06 PM

Go with a capstock PVC instead. Azek will dance all of the place if not top screwed. I have gotten away from 100 percent PVC. It moves laterally too much. Go with a timbertech evolution board or even the trex transcend board.

Npkr01 05-05-2012 08:29 AM

Since making my original post my deck builder requoted me.

He told me that because of the aforementioned price increases on the Azek, he had a12% increase in cost in his voicemail last week.

However, the new quote jumped by 23% overall. This seems excessive to me. I fully expect a contractor to pass on cost increases, but the Azek decking should increase the price by 12% of his cost for Azek with smaller % increases for lumber, etc. This is a 450 sq ft replacement deck with "vinyl railing" with price increasing from 13,600 to 16,690, again, an increase of 23%. A 12% increase of his Azek cost alone should increase the overall cost of the project by something far less than 12% for the overall project, by my estimate.

Clutchcargo 05-05-2012 09:24 AM

Could be supply and demand. Now he's lining his jobs up and he was probably hungrier when you first spoke to him and maybe he passed on a discount to keep his guys working. Dunno, just a wild a$$ guess.
As usual, you should get multiple quotes before proceeding.

dvatt 05-05-2012 10:04 AM

You.live anywhere near Philadelphia bc I will do it for the original price!


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