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Old 02-10-2009, 06:37 PM   #16
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Attaching Porch shed roof to Brick Veneer


Bwalley..

I am seeking advise relative to this project because I have never had this type of situation in my 20 years. And it's not my 700k house.. I don't do renovation for homeowners!!! (I may in the future!) If it were my house I would not hesitate

(analogy) If you have never crossed a bridge before, does it hurt to ask someone about a possible pitfalls that has had this exactly type of situation? No one yet has chimed in and said "oh yeah, we did that before"..All I have received so far is you need an "Engineer" and "Permits" and city inspections. All of which I knew and have done before posting.

Your the only one posting annoying posts.. What is your purpose here? what have you added so far?

You clearly haven't taken the time to ponder or comprehend what has been typed, because if you did your ignorance would not be so obvious to those of us who know what is actually being discussed relative to dealing this brick. Proving that you studying for your licence gets you no where without experience..Legal yes, knowing what your doing, no! Which do Homeowner prefer? Well they prefer both.

Bwelley, if your customer relations skills are as bad as you Internet skills, you will most certainly struggle..

I was approached to do this job for a friend, so I am taking it on. I am at the very beginning stages, Drawing plans, getting estimates, material take offs, getting permits apps, Hoa apps, getting the Engineer out, mulling over options, and figuring out exactly what the homeowner wants. If I find myself doing more homeowner jobs in the future, then I will get my license..

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Old 02-10-2009, 06:56 PM   #17
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Attaching Porch shed roof to Brick Veneer


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If you have built over 500 homes, why do you need advice on this little project?

You have to make sure the wall can support the additional weight of the rof and any load that is applied to it, a 4/12 will hold snow won't it?

BTW I am not just an HVAC Contractor I am a State Certified Building Contractor, I have been licensed longer as a Building Contractor than I have been as an HVAC Contractor, next week I take the state exam for a Certified Plumbing Contractor as well, so I would say my credentials prove I know what I am talking about.

Residential contracting is not rocket science, but it is to be done by the professionals, you are not licensed and are in over your head on this, you should let the pro's do it.

If you know so much and have so much experience, why don't you get your contractors license?
Ok Bwelley, I will give a chance to earn your salt here..

Your a licence professional correct?

Go back and carefully read the situation.

Then give us the Text book way, the Bwelley way to to this shed roof attached to a 3 story brick house... over an existing 20 ' x 12 ' deck.

I can't wait to hear why you think that Brick is coming down is the way to do it.. I wish I had pictures to share, but you should be able to picture it in your mind with your expertise if you read.
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Old 02-10-2009, 07:19 PM   #18
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Attaching Porch shed roof to Brick Veneer


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Originally Posted by ApexTiger View Post
Bwalley..

I am seeking advise relative to this project because I have never had this type of situation in my 20 years. And it's not my 700k house.. I don't do renovation for homeowners!!! (I may in the future!) If it were my house I would not hesitate

(analogy) If you have never crossed a bridge before, does it hurt to ask someone about a possible pitfalls that has had this exactly type of situation? No one yet has chimed in and said "oh yeah, we did that before"..All I have received so far is you need an "Engineer" and "Permits" and city inspections. All of which I knew and have done before posting.

Your the only one posting annoying posts.. What is your purpose here? what have you added so far?

You clearly haven't taken the time to ponder or comprehend what has been typed, because if you did your ignorance would not be so obvious to those of us who know what is actually being discussed relative to dealing this brick. Proving that you studying for your licence gets you no where without experience..Legal yes, knowing what your doing, no! Which do Homeowner prefer? Well they prefer both.

Bwelley, if your customer relations skills are as bad as you Internet skills, you will most certainly struggle..

I was approached to do this job for a friend, so I am taking it on. I am at the very beginning stages, Drawing plans, getting estimates, material take offs, getting permits apps, Hoa apps, getting the Engineer out, mulling over options, and figuring out exactly what the homeowner wants. If I find myself doing more homeowner jobs in the future, then I will get my license..
Part of the design criteria is going to have to take in the lateral deflection placed upon the structure as well as the additional weight added to the wall, your engineer will have to factor the live load and the dead load on the structure.

Having a P.E. look at it is one thing having a design professional do the engineering and design it properly is another thing.

You can not get it designed over the internet, especially when you pick and choose what information you are going to believe.

The price of the house is irrelevant, you should approach the job the same on a $50,000 house as you would a 1 million dollar house.

Safety is the 1st requirement that should be dealt with on any job, if you are not capable of doing the job correctly, you should not attempt on the job training with this project, driving across a bridge is one thing, building one is another.

My customers like me just fine because I know what I am doing and I don't take their safety lightly.
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Old 02-10-2009, 07:22 PM   #19
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Attaching Porch shed roof to Brick Veneer


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Originally Posted by ApexTiger View Post
Ok Bwelley, I will give a chance to earn your salt here..

Your a licence professional correct?

Go back and carefully read the situation.

Then give us the Text book way, the Bwelley way to to this shed roof attached to a 3 story brick house... over an existing 20 ' x 12 ' deck.

I can't wait to hear why you think that Brick is coming down is the way to do it.. I wish I had pictures to share, but you should be able to picture it in your mind with your expertise if you read.
An engineer needs to design this, I am not a Professional Engineer.

Removng a couple of courses of brick will not cause the brick's above it to come down, once the brick is removed, you will need to shore up the brick, there are a few different ways to do this, a P.E. would need to tell you how to do this.
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Old 02-10-2009, 08:06 PM   #20
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Attaching Porch shed roof to Brick Veneer


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An engineer needs to design this, I am not a Professional Engineer.

Removing a couple of courses of brick will not cause the brick's above it to come down, once the brick is removed, you will need to shore up the brick, there are a few different ways to do this, a P.E. would need to tell you how to do this.
One thing I didn't point is, the homeowner doesn't want to cut the brick (this has been discussed) 20 thousand upgrade they said...

the cut would have to be 21 ' wide and close a foot and a half in course of brick..a huge rectangular cut.. must get the 2 x 10 ledger or Ridge board and the rafter clearance.. It's a big hole...but a big hole or small, I guess it doesn't matter because it's not longer supporting the upper course.

Once the picture was given the homeowner they weren't too thrilled. Just don't want to chance jeopardizing the integrity of the brick above.. We have no idea how well the wall ties were done.

On new construction, this shed roof would have been framed 5 1/2' off the wall, with treated 2 x6 look outs, and the brick layers would have basically brick on their way up thru the roof, no lintel needed, and continue.

The PE doesn't have an issue going thru the brick.. The Deck is already done this way..as you may read in my other posts.

The PE that came out yesterday was young, so I have some concern with that , and I want to discuss this with the senior PE when he gets back in town. While I am confident in the plan, I just don't want to make a mistake on this very important issue.

My first instinct was to take it down, cut it...like you would siding...but then you consider the scope of weight above and homeowner anxiety..Then you find yourself looking for plan B.. Add blocking from inside and go thru the brick... If the Engineer blesses it well I suppose we are OK..

The thing with Engineers is they can come up all kinds of options..some are costly and some just don't feel right...So Engineers are humans too, and their judgment has to questioned just like anyone else... Some municipalities down here require the Engineer demonstrate his/her calculations.. Won't just accept their seal.

Thanks for the reply
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Old 02-10-2009, 08:12 PM   #21
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Attaching Porch shed roof to Brick Veneer


If the homeowner does not want to cut the brick, I would not be involved with the job.

If the job is done properly, they will not even notice the brick that was removed, it sounds like they are hacking up a nice house by putting a shed roof on the porch.

The brick will self support, even if the ties are not attached very well, I have done enough demo of brick to know how well it will support itslef even when several courses below it are removed, I will see if I have any pictures of a job I demo'd that was brick on the 2nd floor.

From your posts you sound like you are acting as the GC, I thought in NC you had to have a license to be a GC.
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Old 02-10-2009, 08:42 PM   #22
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Attaching Porch shed roof to Brick Veneer


Look at my album, I posted a picture of a commercial job I am doing, look at the opening and see how at the top of it the Brick is self supporting itslef, there are no ties holding it to the beam behind the bricks.
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Old 02-10-2009, 09:01 PM   #23
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Attaching Porch shed roof to Brick Veneer


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Originally Posted by bwalley View Post
If the homeowner does not want to cut the brick, I would not be involved with the job.

If the job is done properly, they will not even notice the brick that was removed, it sounds like they are hacking up a nice house by putting a shed roof on the porch.

The brick will self support, even if the ties are not attached very well, I have done enough demo of brick to know how well it will support itslef even when several courses below it are removed, I will see if I have any pictures of a job I demo'd that was brick on the 2nd floor.

From your posts you sound like you are acting as the GC, I thought in NC you had to have a license to be a GC.
Yes GC...HO signs off on the Permit....they schedule inspections... I met the inspectors and over see the entire project. Has to be under 30k
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Old 02-10-2009, 09:07 PM   #24
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Attaching Porch shed roof to Brick Veneer


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Look at my album, I posted a picture of a commercial job I am doing, look at the opening and see how at the top of it the Brick is self supporting itslef, there are no ties holding it to the beam behind the bricks.
Hard to tell what I am look at in that photo...

Is it brick at the very top over the large middle opening? Looks like a large lentil is holding it up with posts on each side..

I don't see the revelence in your illustration to my project, but I appreciate the effort..

So you do commercial work mainly or both.. What do you do?
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Old 02-10-2009, 09:13 PM   #25
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Attaching Porch shed roof to Brick Veneer


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Originally Posted by ApexTiger View Post
Hard to tell what I am look at in that photo...

Is it brick at the very top over the large middle opening? Looks like a large lentil is holding it up with posts on each side..

I don't see the revelence in your illustration to my project, but I appreciate the effort..

So you do commercial work mainly or both.. What do you do?
There is brick over the large opneing, there are no lintels on this project.

Click on the picture it will show you more detail, I will try to find others to show you.

I do commercial and residential, mostly residential remodeling, like high end kitfchens, baths and major renovations.
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Old 02-10-2009, 09:28 PM   #26
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Attaching Porch shed roof to Brick Veneer


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There is brick over the large opneing, there are no lintels on this project.

Click on the picture it will show you more detail, I will try to find others to show you.

I do commercial and residential, mostly residential remodeling, like high end kitfchens, baths and major renovations.
The picture won't blow up...no worries... I want to see something on the level I am talking about here in the situation..

I have read other forums tonight on this kind of project.. There is no cut and dry answer... Most remodelers on line admitted they don't come across Brick in the back...don't have to mess with it much.

Some layed out the exact plan I have with this engineer.. others suggest, "I don't know, get an engineer", and other hint at "removing the brick...but get an engineer"...

It's just brick.. but it creates some challenges even though the project is simple..

If I can't get confortable with it, I may pass on it.

The over all plan is not a hack job, it will have really nice arches and phantom screens.. We don't have room for a Gable roof..

I have to discuss this more with the Senior PE.
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Old 02-10-2009, 09:45 PM   #27
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Attaching Porch shed roof to Brick Veneer


What I was trying to show you is how when even all of the bricks underneath the top courses are removed, the bricks will still support themselves.
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Old 02-10-2009, 10:06 PM   #28
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Attaching Porch shed roof to Brick Veneer


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What I was trying to show you is how when even all of the bricks underneath the top courses are removed, the bricks will still support themselves.

Yes, but you don't plan to leave them in that state, correct.

I have torn down brick walls, I know they don't come down easy.

I am dealing with someone's new pride and joy.. You feel me on that?

AS I continue to read tonight, many people can not agree on the proper way to attach a deck to a brick Veneer..

Some say, start and stop the Veneer, add the deck ledger, add lintel, flash and continue.. But that opens up lots of other moister problems

Some say yes, brick all the way up...Add ledger and bolt thru brick lagging thru the rim joist

Some agree, but some say take off the load by making it free standing thus adding additional footers at the foundation and beam up the perimeter..

3 ways, all strong opinions from all over the country with all kinds of experience..

The roof ledger board apparently is acceptable thur Brick but only with proper engineering. (which we are doing). The key is keeping most of the loads off the brick and into the structure... We did discuss about adding support beams down from the Deck up against the house..

maybe we should go ahead and do that and while we are add it make the deck free standing, right now it is supported with 4 footings, 4 6 x6 posts and 12" OC 2 x 8's..is about 4 feet above grade
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Old 02-11-2009, 05:18 AM   #29
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Attaching Porch shed roof to Brick Veneer


Has your engineer even thought about the additional weight on the wall as well as the new lateral forces being placed on it?

There is more to adding a roof to an existing structure than bolting a ledger board through some bricks.

A competent licensed P.E. needs to design the project and a competent licensed contractor with experience in this area needs to do the work.

You say you are experienced but based on your own words, this is over your head.
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Old 02-11-2009, 06:22 AM   #30
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Has your engineer even thought about the additional weight on the wall as well as the new lateral forces being placed on it?

There is more to adding a roof to an existing structure than bolting a ledger board through some bricks.

A competent licensed P.E. needs to design the project and a competent licensed contractor with experience in this area needs to do the work.

You say you are experienced but based on your own words, this is over your head.
You don't think too highly of us here in NC do you?

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