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Old 12-13-2012, 09:16 PM   #16
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Attach deck ledger to house - blind


Well, the local engineer who suggested it said that the worst that would happen is that they would make me get an engineer to sign it off, anyway. I am not worried about that or about a failure. As I said, I do have an engineer helping on this, he simply cannot sign off on it. I am drawing my plans thoroughly and carefully so I do not miss anything. I tend to overbuild, so the thing isn't going to fall down. Or I'll be dead before it does, anyway.

Here's the thing: the existing decks are extremely dangerous. Or were, anyway, they are mostly torn down now. Two of the joists were so rotten that when I removed the planking above them, they just fell to the ground in pieces. I cut one joist off and the joist hanger fell to the ground, leaving the joist still in place. THAT is worst case, not some mythical and mysterious building faux pas. The county does not care if I or my wife fall to our deaths, as long as we do it from a deck which passed the building inspection almost 30 years ago. I have different ideas about safety than they do.

To have the replacements engineered is impossible. I simply do not have the money. Period. To have them rebuilt by a contractor is impossible. I do not have that money, either. Period. There is this trend in America to want too much and to pay people to do everything for us and to just charge it. Call me old fashioned, but I do not spend money that I do not have and I do not sign up for payments which I cannot make. I have to replace these decks, I cannot afford to farm it out, so I am going to do it myself and they will be as good as or better than a contractor would do. Because that is how I do things.

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Last edited by FatBear; 12-13-2012 at 09:23 PM.
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Old 12-13-2012, 09:21 PM   #17
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Attach deck ledger to house - blind


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If you don't trust lag bolts, then open the wall/ceiling on the inside of the house and bolt it up, as you initially planned.
One of those ceilings is a weird sort of dropped arrangement which will require opening large enough holes to climb up into. And what a mess it will make, though I can certainly and skillfully replace the drywall. The other is actually the underside of a stuccoed overhang. I am really poor at stucco and hate it so I was hoping to avoid it. I just thought it was worth asking if anyone had an alternative. Everything else in the world has become so sophisticated that I thought maybe there would be a solution to this problem, too. But I guess not, so maybe I will end up doing as you suggest.
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Old 12-15-2012, 11:27 AM   #18
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Attach deck ledger to house - blind


Kind of late to the game... I've built a few 100% non-combustible decks, in fact we are working on one right now. The simplest ones are steel frame, aluminum decking, and steel railings. Nothing to burn there. The one we are currently doing is steel frame with paver stones and steel railings, the current fireproof deck is a replacement of a deck that was damaged in the "Waldo Canyon Fire" that burned 347 homes to the ground in Colorado Springs. We've been building decks with steel frames for years before this fire, in fact one of our decks (with composite decking, class B fire rating) was not damaged at all even though the fire came sweeping down into the backyard burning most of the tress/bushes in the yard.
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Old 12-15-2012, 02:10 PM   #19
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I just did an elevated concrete deck covered with pavers and parking area under. It was located within a special flood hazard velocity zone. many ways to accomplish a non-combustible deck.
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Old 12-15-2012, 07:49 PM   #20
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I've built a few 100% non-combustible decks, in fact we are working on one right now. The simplest ones are steel frame, aluminum decking, and steel railings. Nothing to burn there. The one we are currently doing is steel frame with paver stones and steel railings
The first one wouldn't work with the house. The second sounds interesting, but not exactly what we want. One really big consideration is access. I, or hired goons, am going to have to carry everything down a steep hill and then up to where it is used. No cranes, no lifts or hoists, no backing up to the site and unloading. Steel seems awfully heavy for my creaking old body. Am I wrong? Can you build a steel framed deck without machinery to lift the pieces into place?

Here's what I am planning:

Structure holding upper deck is a series of three arches on the front and one on each end. Inside of each arch is the diagonal which will be required to meet codes. Arches are stronger, but most people do not understand them, so I will have both. I was planning to frame them in PT and cover with stucco. They will go nicely with the house. The arches will enclose a lower deck which will be kind of a "loggia". At the end will be room for a pool, though we will never be able to afford one without winning the lottery.

Upper deck with be framed with 2x8 PT joists on 16" centers (just a five foot span plus one foot cantilever) decked with 3/4" PT plywood, sealed with copious amounts of Red Guard and covered with tile. Stucco siding on the house will be flashed onto the tile and the tile will be epoxy grouted. Underside of the deck will be covered with some sort of cement board - Hardi or something - and stuccoed, leaving no exposed wood.

Deck rails are to be cable railings because the only good think about this weird-assed house is the view. (The house is built like a whole bunch of boxes all piled haphazardly - I did not buy it, it came with the wife.)

I am very interested in suggestions for building the railings so they will meet code (200# lateral stress, etc.) and not leak when it rains. I welded up some for another deck but was not happy with how they turned out. I was told by a cable supplier that 1" steel posts would barely work. Turns out they barely don't work and will need to be reinforced. I will use larger steel on the next ones, so that should not be a problem. But attaching them was a PIB. I welded base plates onto them and bolted into the deck (it was L-shaped and supported on both ends, so meets the 200# rule.) I had to bed them carefully and fit tile around the bases. Not good. I am thinking of welding mounting plates to the sides of the posts and through-bolting to the rim joist of my deck. With enough bedding I think they can be waterproof. Do you think they will be strong enough if done that way?

Also, I used primer and paint on the first ones and had to re-work some rust spots after the first winter - no more after that, though. Is this normal for steel railings or is there a better way for an individual like me to do this? Is it practical to have them powder coated?

I might also pay my nephew to come over (from about 900 miles away) and weld up stainless steel railings. He is a pro welder. That would take care of the rust problem but might put me in the poor house!

Last edited by FatBear; 12-15-2012 at 07:55 PM.
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Old 12-16-2012, 01:57 AM   #21
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Attach deck ledger to house - blind


Steel framing is far lighter than wood framing for similar spans. I can easily carry 2 16' joists... (that's not happening with PT wood unless you're a mule).

We powdercoat railings all the time. I've done a number of attachment details and usually when it's waterproofed then I use outside attachment. You can also find a number of Class A fire rated products (most PVC decking, real IPE).
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Old 12-16-2012, 08:24 PM   #22
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It is certainly tempting, but I'm afraid the learning curve is probably too much for a one-off project. I know building with wood pretty well (built my first house in 1980) and am tooled up. I wouldn't even know where to buy the stuff, much less what dimensions, hangers, fasteners, etc. to buy. I guess I'll stick with wood. But thanks for the suggestion.
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Old 12-23-2012, 09:21 PM   #23
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If you are asking if there are fasteners designed to secure a structure to another structure without thru bolting yes ther ar what is called Ledgerlocks They have to be used with solid wood and attached to a solid and sound structure but are designed to in most cases eliminate thru bolting Refer to mfg application ans specks of course
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Old 12-23-2012, 09:41 PM   #24
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This is my second reply. ONE of the most critical issues in deck building besides being built solid and ending up safe is the attachment to the house. When one wood member in this instance is 'sandwitched"against another in this case the deck ledger to the house this is a recepie for moisture damage ie rot weakening of structure. This attachment needs to be flashed and done correctly.. Flashing 101 under the siding and over the ledger with a weather resistant material such as galvanized metal This would resemble a modified h configuration without the bottom back leg.Water hits the siding comes down hits the metal then falls outward down the outside lip Water is not allowed to get behind the ledger which by the way has a strip of roofing felt over wood perseravite such as copper green.
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Old 12-23-2012, 09:51 PM   #25
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Quote:
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If you are asking if there are fasteners designed to secure a structure to another structure without thru bolting yes ther ar what is called Ledgerlocks They have to be used with solid wood and attached to a solid and sound structure but are designed to in most cases eliminate thru bolting Refer to mfg application ans specks of course
Thank you. I will take a look at them. I also have decided that I will put some straps from the ends of the deck along the ends of the house. That will really seriously help the minor risk of pulling out after I lag or Ledgerlock the heck out of it.
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Old 12-23-2012, 09:56 PM   #26
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Attach deck ledger to house - blind


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Originally Posted by mr leak View Post
If you are asking if there are fasteners designed to secure a structure to another structure without thru bolting yes ther ar what is called Ledgerlocks They have to be used with solid wood and attached to a solid and sound structure but are designed to in most cases eliminate thru bolting Refer to mfg application ans specks of course
Thank you. I will take a look at them. I also have decided that I will put some straps from the ends of the deck along the ends of the house. That will really seriously help the minor risk of pulling out after I lag or Ledgerlock the heck out of it.
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Old 12-23-2012, 10:00 PM   #27
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I'm from Oregon, building this deck in the arid SW. I am very aware of moisture and flashing and will undoubtedly overdo it.
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Old 12-23-2012, 10:30 PM   #28
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I posted 2 different replies regarding your deck and have not seen the posts so here is a recap . Ledgerlocks are what you need as you describe your situation They are Designed for this use and are NOT lag bolts. Secondly the flashing likely galvanized metal needs to go under the stucco membrane as the stucco itself is not water proof Then the flashing continues over the ledger with a configuration for the water to fully miss the ledger which is hopefully pressure treated lumber
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Old 12-23-2012, 10:50 PM   #29
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They both made it, but there was some sort of server problem which is probably why you didn't see them. I saw them, but didn't see my replies, including the duplicate. Hopefully things are squared away now. Yes, I do understand flashing, but thanks for making sure.

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