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Old 10-24-2011, 12:05 PM   #1
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Asbestos Siding - Bury or Remove


Been googling this and most threads I have found seem to be from years ago, maybe this isn't a concern anymore?

Looking to have my 1969 built house re sided with CertainTeed vinyl shakes and clapboard. The clapboard would go over the sides and rear which is where the asbestos siding is. Contractor seems to think going right over the original Asbestos shakes (at least I think they're asbestos, they're hard and brittle) is a no brainer. I have asked other homeowner friends and they all agree, just bury the stuff. Contractor says he would remove it all (sides and back, front has cedar shakes) for an additional $800 if I really want it removed, but I can tell he'd rather just go over it. I got my permit to do the siding job and there was no question at all whether I had asbestos shakes, would be removing them if I did etc. which surprised me.

My concerns are, I know when you nail through them they crack and fall apart. Will this cause an uneven bulge in the foam insulation panels/siding if pieces fall down? If I go over them would they add any beneficial insulating properties? If not, what's the benefit of leaving them besides the cost savings?

I also am insisting he uses a foam board insulation, he seems to think 3/8" although thin, would be sufficient. I was thinking use the 3/8" over the asbestos and then use a thicker foam panel on the front where we are removing the cedar shakes. I think behind the front cedar shakes I can see what looks like an old type of dark brown 1/2" foam board, I'm thinking it's the type of insulation they used back in the day.

If he says he can remove of and dispose of the asbestos shakes for $800, then I don't really care what problems he may or may not have getting rid of it.

I would just like to save the $800 if it doesn't have to be removed.

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Old 10-24-2011, 12:34 PM   #2
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Asbestos Siding - Bury or Remove


Asbestos cement siding is classified as encapsulated and, under federal regulations, can remain or be covered up. Local laws may be more stringent. If removed, the material is subject to disposal rules which vary from jurisdiction to jurisdiction.

Another very important consideration is "what happens when I sell my house?" Modern buyers often ask whether the house has any asbestos containing material (exposed or otherwise). If the question arises, it may become much more than an $800 liability.

Rick

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Old 10-24-2011, 12:40 PM   #3
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Asbestos Siding - Bury or Remove


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Originally Posted by Arkitexas View Post
Asbestos cement siding is classified as encapsulated and, under federal regulations, can remain or be covered up. Local laws may be more stringent. If removed, the material is subject to disposal rules which vary from jurisdiction to jurisdiction.

Another very important consideration is "what happens when I sell my house?" Modern buyers often ask whether the house has any asbestos containing material (exposed or otherwise). If the question arises, it may become much more than an $800 liability.

Rick
I thought $800 was a great deal considering abatement costs I've read other people having to pay for. But I read the asbestos shingles would add some insulating benefits, as well as help to keep moisture out. I'm more concerned with broken pieces affecting the appearance of the siding making it seem like it has bulges in certain areas. I've read is a layer of insulation was used between the siding and asbestos it would prevent this from happening, although I don't see how.

Last edited by Rock8Reno; 10-24-2011 at 12:42 PM.
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Old 10-24-2011, 12:59 PM   #4
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Asbestos Siding - Bury or Remove


We've sided over asbestos-slate siding a few times.
Not our preferred method of installation.
However, it saved the homeowner 600 - 800 dollars -
(No lined, registered dumpster)
We covered the old siding with foam-core.
Used a carbide drill bit to pre-drill the nail holes.
The foam-core prevents the asbestos-slate siding from cracking
(too much) and sliding down.
Time consuming; but, it worked.
I've seen the house I did 30 yrs. ago -
looks the same.
3/8 inch would probably be better.

rossfingal
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Old 10-24-2011, 01:11 PM   #5
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Asbestos Siding - Bury or Remove


If removing is the contractor a licensed asbestos contractor? Your question about disposal and any regulations particular to your area could be answered with a call to your county health dept.
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Old 10-24-2011, 01:22 PM   #6
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Asbestos Siding - Bury or Remove


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Originally Posted by rossfingal View Post
We've sided over asbestos-slate siding a few times.
Not our preferred method of installation.
However, it saved the homeowner 600 - 800 dollars -
(No lined, registered dumpster)
We covered the old siding with foam-core.
Used a carbide drill bit to pre-drill the nail holes.
The foam-core prevents the asbestos-slate siding from cracking
(too much) and sliding down.
Time consuming; but, it worked.
I've seen the house I did 30 yrs. ago -
looks the same.
3/8 inch would probably be better.

rossfingal
I think he was planning on using 3/16 insulation panel, that was a typo I think. And I know he's NOT going to drill holes.

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If removing is the contractor a licensed asbestos contractor? Your question about disposal and any regulations particular to your area could be answered with a call to your county health dept.
I'd rather not make a big deal about it and get them involved anymore than they need to be if they are going to remove it.
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Old 10-24-2011, 01:34 PM   #7
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Asbestos Siding - Bury or Remove


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I'd rather not make a big deal about it and get them involved anymore than they need to be if they are going to remove it.
I understand not wanting to get them involved but a phone call asking for info is not getting them involved, the consequences of not doing it right could cost you in the long run and you really do not want the state involved if you are caught doing it wrong.
$800 for removal sounds ridiculously cheap, you also have RRP regulations to consider on your project.
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Old 10-24-2011, 01:39 PM   #8
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Asbestos Siding - Bury or Remove


In regard to the insulation value, asbestos cement siding doesn't help all that much because it is mostly a cement product. Although asbestos itself has a high insulating value (source of the rumor), in siding it represents less than 10% of the material by volume. The R value for asbestos cement siding is less than that of glass - not very good. Additionally there are so many gaps in siding that infiltration is an issue. So, in siding, its insulating value is a myth.

Moisture wise, it is a very good product. It will never rot.

Asbestos cement siding cracks very easily so there is always a chance that broken pieces could pose a problem when covered by other materials.

Rick
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Old 10-24-2011, 02:23 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by rock16 View Post
I understand not wanting to get them involved but a phone call asking for info is not getting them involved, the consequences of not doing it right could cost you in the long run and you really do not want the state involved if you are caught doing it wrong.
$800 for removal sounds ridiculously cheap, you also have RRP regulations to consider on your project.
His quote for the entire job (siding, gutters, soffits, fascia) is cheap compared to other inflated quotes I got. I did my due diligence, got references and looked at various other siding jobs he did. So, I'm not surprised by the $800 quote. I'm sure he doesn't plan on disposing of it in a legal manner, but that's really not my concern.

As far as RRP regulations I have no idea what that is..google search came up as Renovation, Repair and Painting (RRP) with mention of lead paint?? There's no lead paint on my house anywhere, the asbestos siding was sprayed on with a latex paint I believe.

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Originally Posted by Arkitexas View Post
In regard to the insulation value, asbestos cement siding doesn't help all that much because it is mostly a cement product. Although asbestos itself has a high insulating value (source of the rumor), in siding it represents less than 10% of the material by volume. The R value for asbestos cement siding is less than that of glass - not very good. Additionally there are so many gaps in siding that infiltration is an issue. So, in siding, its insulating value is a myth.

Moisture wise, it is a very good product. It will never rot.

Asbestos cement siding cracks very easily so there is always a chance that broken pieces could pose a problem when covered by other materials.

Rick
It's looking like most side right over it without any problems. So, instead of removing it and opening up a can of worms, I may just do that now, go right over it.
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Old 10-24-2011, 02:35 PM   #10
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Quote:
His quote for the entire job (siding, gutters, soffits, fascia) is cheap compared to other inflated quotes I got. I did my due diligence, got references and looked at various other siding jobs he did. So, I'm not surprised by the $800 quote. I'm sure he doesn't plan on disposing of it in a legal manner, but that's really not my concern.
Why when looking at this one (low) price would you then think the (higher) prices of other bidders are then "inflated".

And why do you think it is okay for your asbestos-laden siding to illegally end up in a road ditch someplace for others to deal with.

I'm sorry friend I'm thinking you are some kind of a scumbag and you and this low-balling contractor deserve one another. I hope your kids grow up to be smarter than you are. But unfortunately they won't.

I'll be even more surprised after learning a little about your character if anyone here would continue advising you.
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Old 10-24-2011, 02:45 PM   #11
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Asbestos Siding - Bury or Remove


Asbestos siding is not considered friable material and so does not fall into the US EPA classification requiring licensed abatement. In many locations, all that is required for disposal, is that the removed material be bagged separate from general refuse. Your local landfill can guide you on that. For $800.00 I'd get rid of it and not have the air gaps behind the insulation board.The new siding and insualtion will lay flatter and be easier to install. Every nail through it will fracture the stuff and that WILL create friable material. Drilling it will absolutely create an airborne hazard.

Don't kid yourself into believing that if he disposes of it illegally "It's not my concern". It's your asbestos and believe it or not you own it "cradle to grave". In fact even afer disposal you still own it.

Last edited by Maintenance 6; 10-24-2011 at 02:49 PM.
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Old 10-24-2011, 03:44 PM   #12
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Why when looking at this one (low) price would you then think the (higher) prices of other bidders are then "inflated".

And why do you think it is okay for your asbestos-laden siding to illegally end up in a road ditch someplace for others to deal with.

I'm sorry friend I'm thinking you are some kind of a scumbag and you and this low-balling contractor deserve one another. I hope your kids grow up to be smarter than you are. But unfortunately they won't.

I'll be even more surprised after learning a little about your character if anyone here would continue advising you.
If this contractor can do the same quality of work and use the same material, then why would I use two other contractors who have higher overhead than this guy? Just because a contractors prices are far lower doesn't mean the work will be unsatisfactory.

For instance, years back I priced out various tree removal on my property from 3 different tree removal companies. One was $7,000, one was $5,000 the third one which I went with was $2,000. They were fast, cleaned up, and did a fabulous job. I guess you think like my father and would rather pay more for a product and/or service thinking you are getting more.

And who said my asbestos would end up in a road ditch somewhere? That's being rather ignorant wouldn't you say?

Last edited by Rock8Reno; 10-24-2011 at 04:06 PM.
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Old 10-24-2011, 04:05 PM   #13
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Asbestos siding is not considered friable material and so does not fall into the US EPA classification requiring licensed abatement. In many locations, all that is required for disposal, is that the removed material be bagged separate from general refuse. Your local landfill can guide you on that. For $800.00 I'd get rid of it and not have the air gaps behind the insulation board.The new siding and insualtion will lay flatter and be easier to install. Every nail through it will fracture the stuff and that WILL create friable material. Drilling it will absolutely create an airborne hazard.

Don't kid yourself into believing that if he disposes of it illegally "It's not my concern". It's your asbestos and believe it or not you own it "cradle to grave". In fact even afer disposal you still own it.
Well, thanks for the insight on this. Even though I didn't actually originally 'pay' for the asbestos, it just happened to be attached to a home I purchased, I still own it forever, that's interesting.
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Old 10-24-2011, 04:28 PM   #14
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I’d remove it, too me removing it is the “no brainier” for a couple of reasons.

1) My first choice is always to remove the existing (non sheet) siding, asbestos or not. There’s no way to know the condition of the structure otherwise. On a 42 year old house it is very common to find issues that need to be addressed such as rot.

2) Asbestos siding is very brittle and its almost guaranteed that while nailing the new siding pieces will brake off and fall behind the new siding and possibly create other issues.

I know it’s common practice in the vinyl siding industry to bury everything, I disagree with this practice. It’s no different that piling up layer upon layer of flooring, just because people do it that doesn’t make it right.

I’ve done a few of these in the early 90’s as far as disposal all we had to do was double bag it and haul it to a special landfill an hour away. Removal was easy too, go easy with a flat bar and for the most part it just pops off the wall. Keep the wall wet and you were good to go.
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Last edited by kwikfishron; 10-24-2011 at 04:30 PM.
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Old 10-24-2011, 05:01 PM   #15
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I’d remove it, too me removing it is the “no brainier” for a couple of reasons.

1) My first choice is always to remove the existing (non sheet) siding, asbestos or not. There’s no way to know the condition of the structure otherwise. On a 42 year old house it is very common to find issues that need to be addressed such as rot.

2) Asbestos siding is very brittle and its almost guaranteed that while nailing the new siding pieces will brake off and fall behind the new siding and possibly create other issues.

I know it’s common practice in the vinyl siding industry to bury everything, I disagree with this practice. It’s no different that piling up layer upon layer of flooring, just because people do it that doesn’t make it right.

I’ve done a few of these in the early 90’s as far as disposal all we had to do was double bag it and haul it to a special landfill an hour away. Removal was easy too, go easy with a flat bar and for the most part it just pops off the wall. Keep the wall wet and you were good to go.
Thanks for the advice. Back when I bought this home 12 years ago I had no idea what it was. In fact I know I drilled a few holes in some of them a few times and even cut a new piece for replacement. I don't recall much dust at all. I also scraped up what I assumed was asbestos flooring in my basement without using a respirator. I guess I will get cancer now and die.

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