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Old 06-08-2010, 11:02 PM   #1
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Apply cultured stone overhead


I am in process of building a new house. As a special accent, I would like to envelope the kitchen on two sides with stone arches. See attachment.

I would like to use cultured stones for this project. The arch is suspended from the top by a 14” gluelam which runs across the entire room (you can see parts of it on the left). The left hand post to the left of the bar stool is actually a 8x8 wooden post supporting the gluelam. I built the arch very robust with a 2x6 framework and incased it all with plywood. My plan is to attach a metal screen (mesh) to the plywood and cover it with a mortar base. The arch’s total span is about 16 feet. The second arch (perpendicular to the arch you can see is only about 8 feet.

The questions I have are as follows:
· I have worked with cultured stone before but only on walls. What substrate or special glue should I use to mount the stones overhead to the arch? I would think that I should use a fast binding adhesive (Gorilla glue or so) to limit the time that I have to hold it in place?!?
· Should I use a metal mesh or simply glue the stone directly to the plywood?
· Also, do I have to be concerned about possible flexing of the gluelam if people move around above the kitchen. I am thinking that the adhesive may crack?!?!?

I appreciate all your thought VERY MUCH! Best regards, Hans gruezi@mydurango.net
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Old 06-09-2010, 06:23 AM   #2
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have you considered the dead load of this very fine arch ? what about upright support for each side ? ' cultured stone ' IS concrete !

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Old 06-09-2010, 07:10 AM   #3
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I'm assuming that you'll be putting stone on both sides of those posts & arch. Also assuming the depth of the arch is only about 8". If that's the case, I'd install galvanized diamond mesh as usual, scratch coat with Type N or S, and finish said scratch coat off with a small notched tile trowel. Personally, I would stick the stone with Type N, possibly using some bonding agent in the mud depending on the weight/thickness/density of the stone. Others would suggest "thinset", but I can't say that 've ever tried it. You'll be suprised how well cultured will stick to the dry scratch coat, especially since every corner stone on the underside of the arch should have a vertical leg to it as well.
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Old 06-09-2010, 09:01 AM   #4
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Hi Jomama and Itsreallyconc

Thanks for your response. Yes, I am aware of the weight situation. Consequently, the house was built with the needed extra strength for that. Thanks for your concern.
I have a question for Jomama: You mentioned: "... since every corner stone on the underside of the arch should have a vertical leg to it as well" Can you please explain what you meant by that? Many thanks for the other hints!
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Old 06-09-2010, 10:10 AM   #5
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Your plan is OK, but I am an advocate of polymer modified thinset for that application. Mix it a tad on the dry side with full buttering and you will have instant grab on the overheads.

Also, 8x8 is not a good size for cultured stone. 12x12 is the minimum I will do a column.
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Old 06-09-2010, 05:15 PM   #6
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Thanks for your response. I will follow your thoughts since you have the experiance I don't have. Do you suggest a particular manifacturer for the thinset? If you don't mind, could you explain what you mean by "buttering"? Does it mean pasty or creamy? Your thoughts on the post's dimensions are also very appreciated.
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Old 06-09-2010, 05:19 PM   #7
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t-scar's an engineer of some sort & he's also got more faith than i in p/m thinset,,, i still like mechanical attachment + whatever-he-said
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Old 06-09-2010, 10:18 PM   #8
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I am not an engineer, although my Dad is. For me, it is worth the money to pay for a 2 hour pot life and a product that reaches bond strengths over 10,000 PSI, so expect to pay around 30 bucks bag for a 40 pound bag of thinset. Pot life or no, do not mix the whole bag at once.

Buttering refers to coating the faux stone completely and evenly.

Most faux stone corners will have one leg that is 4" long ID and the other at a random length between 8 and 12 inches.
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Old 06-09-2010, 11:26 PM   #9
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I'm assuming that your applying the stone to 3 sides in the arch: The outside face you show in the sketch, the under side of the arch, & teh vertical surface directly opposite of the sketch elevation. Something like this:

Apply cultured stone overhead-prod_beautyshot.jpg

If you're using corner pieces (which you really should be) you will want to "stagger" or "weave" the corners together to mimic a real stone job, and eliminate what's called a "cold joint".

If concerned about the initial grip of the stone, use the thinset that T-scar suggested.
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Old 06-10-2010, 10:21 PM   #10
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Thanks Jomama. You are correct, the stone will run on three sides. Allthough, the stone wall looking from inside the kitchen is 15" lower due to the kitchen ceiling. Thanks again for your hint regarding the staggering of the corners. Makes clear sense.

Has anybody every used the new fast bonding Gorilla Glue for certain stone work? That stuff sticks simply to anything and it gets as hard as a rock.
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Old 06-11-2010, 08:39 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hryser View Post
Thanks Jomama. You are correct, the stone will run on three sides. Allthough, the stone wall looking from inside the kitchen is 15" lower due to the kitchen ceiling. Thanks again for your hint regarding the staggering of the corners. Makes clear sense.

Has anybody every used the new fast bonding Gorilla Glue for certain stone work? That stuff sticks simply to anything and it gets as hard as a rock.

It may work, but seems like you would need a few 5 gallons pails of it to complete the job. Most culture stone have extremely agressive/rough bakcs to them to help them "bite" into mortar. I can't imagine how much of this glue it would take to fill the back of this stones even flush.

I'm not sure what part of the standard procedure you're trying to save by going this route, but you're ultimately going to need mortar for grouting joints anyway, so why not use it (or thinset) for the entire project?
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Old 06-11-2010, 09:34 AM   #12
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I agree with Jomama's suggestion of using thinset - apply the stones like they're tile.

Thinset is cheap in comparison - you can control it's consistency and it will bond well to the stone.

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