Another newbie building a tile shower

ChadC · 06-18-2007, 10:12 AM

Hi All,

I am trying to install a tiled shower in the master bath. Its a very small room with a small shower (shower is about 4ftx2ft). I have a question about the sloped floor under the pan liner.

Yesterday I tacked up some 3/4" strips at the height that I wanted the sand mix to be along the sides. Since the floor is slightly sloped this gave me a 3/4" depth on the side opposite the shower head and slightly more than that under the shower head. I packed in sand mix and sloped it from those strips to the drain which sits about 1/4" above the floor.

This moring after it dried I measured the slope using some shims and a level and its just slightly less than ideal. On the long sides the wall is about 21 inches from the drain and its about 11 inches on the short sides. I've got a slope of about 3/8 of in inch on the side opposite the shower head, but only about 3/16-1/4" on the other sides. I must not have had the strips completely level or the floor was more uneven that I accounted for because the floor "looks good" and slopes to the top of my strips just like I wanted it too.

My Question is: Is this "enough" slope for such a small shower or can I add 1/4 inch or so more sand mix on top of the existing? I want it to be right, but I don't want to make it worse trying and I wasn't sure how that would bond.

Thanks for any advice you can give!!

troubleseeker · 06-20-2007, 10:33 PM

I'm confused, why do you have a slope under the pan liner? Usually the liner is laid to the subfloor and then the mud bed is placed on top of the liner. You cannot stick the floor tiles directly to the pan liner. The preferred slope is 1/4" per foot, but water will drain ok with a LITTLE less.Your reference to the drain also raises questions. There are special drain hubs that are required for morter bed floors; they have a bolt down flange to capture the pan liner for waterproofing at the drain, and the height of the drain is adjustable for the thickness of the morter bed, and also contains weep holes to allow an outlet for the moisture that will get into the bed.

ChadC · 06-21-2007, 09:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by troubleseeker

I'm confused, why do you have a slope under the pan liner?

Sorry, I probably did't explain myself very well. There is a thin sloped "sand mix" layer under the pan liner that so that any water that happens to get to the pan liner will drain and not be trapped under the tile and mortar.

Quote:

Originally Posted by troubleseeker

You cannot stick the floor tiles directly to the pan liner.

I realize that, I was speaking only of the thin layer under the pan liner. I havn't put the liner down yet, that's my next step.

Quote:

Originally Posted by troubleseeker

The preferred slope is 1/4" per foot, but water will drain ok with a LITTLE less.

Thanks, this is what I wanted to be sure of. I figured it was probably ok since we are talking about a few 16ths of an inch, but I wanted to hear that from someone else

Quote:

Originally Posted by troubleseeker

Your reference to the drain also raises questions. There are special drain hubs that are required for morter bed floors; they have a bolt down flange to capture the pan liner for waterproofing at the drain, and the height of the drain is adjustable for the thickness of the morter bed, and also contains weep holes to allow an outlet for the moisture that will get into the bed.

Right, I've got a tiled shower drain. The bottom is embedded in the sand mix layer and after I put down the liner the flange with the weep holes bolts onto that and then the drain part screws into that.

Thanks for you're comments, I appreciate it!

BobK · 08-25-2008, 02:05 PM

My small bathroom has been gutted and I am building up the new floor and shower area. I put down the sand mix layer and have a decent slope to the drain. Next is the water barrier but I am concerned that the sand mix layer A) is not smooth enough and B) may not be high eneough. How smooth must it be? I tried sanding it a bit just to get the real rough spots out but it still has some small pits. The reason I think it may not be high enough is that I did not completely take into account the drain. That is, as it currently is the drain will be about 1/4 inch above the barrier. Should the barrier be a bit higher so it forms a bit of a cup around the drain? If so, do I add a bit more of a sand mix layer or can I use some thin set?

ChadC · 08-25-2008, 02:20 PM

As long as you aren't talking about hills and valleys I don't think you'd have a problem with "smoothness" as this is just the base layer. Did you put in a tile shower drain? Its a special drain with a couple of parts. The first part is cemented into the 'sand mix'. It should be flush with the sand mix layer. Then you put down your liner and bolt the next piece onto the drain base which sandwiches the liner between. So yes, that base part of the drain should be flush with the 'sand mix' layer.

BobK · 08-25-2008, 03:09 PM

Ok, no hills or valleys so I guess this should be ok. The base is flush with the sand mix. It just seems to me that the base should be inset slightly such that the barrier dips down into the drain when the top half bolts down onto it. BTW, do I need to glue the barrier to the base piece or is bolting it down good enough?

Thanks,
Bob

ChadC · 08-25-2008, 03:51 PM

The base that I used was inset a little bit. there was a flange that was flush with the cement and the center was inset maybe an 1/8th of an inch. As long as there is a slope to the drain you should be all set. I was worried about the slope of the first layer too when I was finished so I added a little more slope when I did the top layer.

Yes, you should glue the liner down to the base. I'm trying to remember ( did this a year ago), but I think that I glued outside the bolt holes so that any water that came in through the weep holes would have free flow to the drain and not be trapped under the liner or forced back up under it.

BobK · 08-25-2008, 03:58 PM

Ok, great. Thanks. One more thing. Do I need to get this work inspected? If so, when?

06-18-2007, 10:12 AM	#1
ChadC Newbie Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 4	Another newbie building a tile shower Hi All, I am trying to install a tiled shower in the master bath. Its a very small room with a small shower (shower is about 4ftx2ft). I have a question about the sloped floor under the pan liner. Yesterday I tacked up some 3/4" strips at the height that I wanted the sand mix to be along the sides. Since the floor is slightly sloped this gave me a 3/4" depth on the side opposite the shower head and slightly more than that under the shower head. I packed in sand mix and sloped it from those strips to the drain which sits about 1/4" above the floor. This moring after it dried I measured the slope using some shims and a level and its just slightly less than ideal. On the long sides the wall is about 21 inches from the drain and its about 11 inches on the short sides. I've got a slope of about 3/8 of in inch on the side opposite the shower head, but only about 3/16-1/4" on the other sides. I must not have had the strips completely level or the floor was more uneven that I accounted for because the floor "looks good" and slopes to the top of my strips just like I wanted it too. My Question is: Is this "enough" slope for such a small shower or can I add 1/4 inch or so more sand mix on top of the existing? I want it to be right, but I don't want to make it worse trying and I wasn't sure how that would bond. Thanks for any advice you can give!!

06-20-2007, 10:33 PM	#2
troubleseeker remodeling pro Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 1,399	Another newbie building a tile shower I'm confused, why do you have a slope under the pan liner? Usually the liner is laid to the subfloor and then the mud bed is placed on top of the liner. You cannot stick the floor tiles directly to the pan liner. The preferred slope is 1/4" per foot, but water will drain ok with a LITTLE less.Your reference to the drain also raises questions. There are special drain hubs that are required for morter bed floors; they have a bolt down flange to capture the pan liner for waterproofing at the drain, and the height of the drain is adjustable for the thickness of the morter bed, and also contains weep holes to allow an outlet for the moisture that will get into the bed.

08-25-2008, 02:05 PM	#4
BobK Newbie Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 3	Another newbie building a tile shower My small bathroom has been gutted and I am building up the new floor and shower area. I put down the sand mix layer and have a decent slope to the drain. Next is the water barrier but I am concerned that the sand mix layer A) is not smooth enough and B) may not be high eneough. How smooth must it be? I tried sanding it a bit just to get the real rough spots out but it still has some small pits. The reason I think it may not be high enough is that I did not completely take into account the drain. That is, as it currently is the drain will be about 1/4 inch above the barrier. Should the barrier be a bit higher so it forms a bit of a cup around the drain? If so, do I add a bit more of a sand mix layer or can I use some thin set?

08-25-2008, 02:20 PM	#5
ChadC Newbie Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 4	Another newbie building a tile shower As long as you aren't talking about hills and valleys I don't think you'd have a problem with "smoothness" as this is just the base layer. Did you put in a tile shower drain? Its a special drain with a couple of parts. The first part is cemented into the 'sand mix'. It should be flush with the sand mix layer. Then you put down your liner and bolt the next piece onto the drain base which sandwiches the liner between. So yes, that base part of the drain should be flush with the 'sand mix' layer.

08-25-2008, 03:09 PM	#6
BobK Newbie Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 3	Another newbie building a tile shower Ok, no hills or valleys so I guess this should be ok. The base is flush with the sand mix. It just seems to me that the base should be inset slightly such that the barrier dips down into the drain when the top half bolts down onto it. BTW, do I need to glue the barrier to the base piece or is bolting it down good enough? Thanks, Bob

Another newbie building a tile shower