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Old 09-09-2009, 11:03 PM   #1
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Anchor Bolts Red Head Vs Epoxy


Im getting very close to starting a deck project where I various tasks anchoring to concrete pads. I am planning on using Wedge anchors (red heads to attach sleepers to a concrete pad. This pad was poured back in June.

I am also anchoring some 4X4 posts for beams in some concrete pads that were poured in march time frame, Is it safe to use Wedge anchors for the post holders as well. Im starting to think that epoxy would be better for the posts holders because if the wedge anchor doesn't set properly It would be difficult to set another one.

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Old 09-09-2009, 11:12 PM   #2
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Anchor Bolts Red Head Vs Epoxy


Epoxy's a pretty good way to go. Compared to wedge anchors you can usually get fairly similar design values with properly installed threaded rod and structural epoxy.

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Old 09-10-2009, 09:23 AM   #3
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Anchor Bolts Red Head Vs Epoxy


Epoxy has many advantagous over wedge anchors. You can use it closer to an unsupported edge, it is usually stronger than almost all mechanical anchors in a similiar application. If done correctly, the threaded rod will usually fail before the epoxy will give way

the biggest disadvantage is it's more expensive, and more labor intensive, but in my mind the +'s outweigh the -'

Do your homework though, all of these products are not the same. If you are buying a dual cartridge, take a good look at it. if both chambers are the same size, this is probably a true epoxy with a 1:1 ratio. These typically are stronger, but take longer to cure, especially at low temps.
If one chamber is smaller in diameter, it's not "really" epoxy, but something similar. These usually cure much faster, but tend to hold a less. Make sure you know what you need, and get a product that is suited for the application.

be a little wary of the all in one, single cartridge that fits in a standard caulk gun. these don't always mix the 2 parts properly, and you often get much lower values than advertised, IMO
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Old 09-10-2009, 10:01 AM   #4
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Anchor Bolts Red Head Vs Epoxy


thanks this helps alot, I'll definately go with the epoxy for my post holders and maybe see how much it costs to do 1 of the sleepers. Not too worried about the sleepers since they will have several anchors and I will be glueing them to the concrete as well.
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Old 09-10-2009, 10:09 AM   #5
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Anchor Bolts Red Head Vs Epoxy


Once you figure out what you want to use, check ebay or craigslist to see if you can get a deal on the gun, just make sure the gun is compatible with what you are getting. Not all Red Head products take the same gun ( this is also true of Hilti, Simpson, Sikka, Covert, Powers, etc... all these companies offer different formulations that may need a special gun, even if it's the same brand)

if you are buying your goop from a good supply house, they might loan or rent you a gun when you buy the epoxy, make sure you ask as some of these guns are VERY pricey, and have little or no other use than dispensing epoxy.
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Old 09-10-2009, 10:44 AM   #6
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Anchor Bolts Red Head Vs Epoxy


oh I need a gun for this?? thanks I'll start hitting up my contractor freinds and rental places
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Old 09-10-2009, 02:06 PM   #7
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Anchor Bolts Red Head Vs Epoxy


Simpson makes an adhesive anchoring material for use in a regular caulk gun. I've used their Set-PAC-EZ. It comes with mixing nozzles. Not all adhesive anchor systems use a 1 to 1 mix. As long you use them as supplied, they are fine. Follow instructions for temperature conditions. Make sure your holes are cleaned out and properly sized for the embedment of the rod you plan to use, both diameter and depth. If you use the wrong hole size, you won't reach the pull out strength values. Have all of your holes drilled and ready, because once you break open the tube and start, you can't stop and come back later. The stuff will set up in the mixing nozzle. The age of your concrete is not an issue. It's well past it's curing time. Adhesive anchoring would be a good choice for your application.
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Old 09-10-2009, 02:08 PM   #8
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Anchor Bolts Red Head Vs Epoxy


thanks, someones lending me a hilti gun so I'll go with the hilti adhesive, good advise on preparing all holes at once
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Old 09-10-2009, 02:40 PM   #9
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Anchor Bolts Red Head Vs Epoxy


Hilti adhesive anchoring is top shelf. You won't go wrong. Just remember to clean out the dust, get the hole sizes right.
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Old 09-10-2009, 03:14 PM   #10
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Anchor Bolts Red Head Vs Epoxy


Hilti makes an epoxy kit that looks like a sausage and you slide into the hole, and ram it with the rod you're anchoring using a special bit and a hilti. I think it's the HVU, not HVA. No gun needed. The bit/rod mixes the epoxy right there in the hole. But it's only worth while if you have a hilti and the adapter bit. The beauty of it is that you don't have to open a dual cartridge kit if you only have a few holes to do.
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Old 09-10-2009, 03:39 PM   #11
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Anchor Bolts Red Head Vs Epoxy


Good choice. The wedge anchors are 6,040# uplift, the Simpson's: AT = 10,210#, SET 12,650#, ET 13,390#.

Be safe, Gary
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Old 09-13-2009, 11:41 PM   #12
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Anchor Bolts Red Head Vs Epoxy


Set my posts and ledgers this weekend with epoxied anchors Hilti works great but hardens super fast, the last two bolts it had already setup in the mixing nossle and so I removed it and mixed it manually shoved it the hole with the bolt. These last bolts were overkill anyway so Im not worried if the holding powers not as strong. Next time I'll try simpons to see if it allows a little more time to set
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Old 09-14-2009, 06:38 AM   #13
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Anchor Bolts Red Head Vs Epoxy


Quote:
Originally Posted by rocketdoctor View Post
Set my posts and ledgers this weekend with epoxied anchors Hilti works great but hardens super fast, the last two bolts it had already setup in the mixing nossle and so I removed it and mixed it manually shoved it the hole with the bolt. These last bolts were overkill anyway so Im not worried if the holding powers not as strong. Next time I'll try simpons to see if it allows a little more time to set
The mixing nozzle is really ESSENTIAL to getting your goop mixed properly. Make sure you get extra's next time and that they are the proper ones for the glue you are using. If you ever decide to cut a nozzle shorter, make sure you are not cutting any of the mixing baffles, as it does make a differance

It's not the brand that determines how fast the stuff starts to cure, but the formula and ambient temp. In other words, Hilti, Simpson, and pretty much everyone else offer at least one product that sets up faster than another product they sell, so depending on which Hilti product you used, you could pick a simpson product that sets even faster. Typically a 1:1 mix sets up slower than a product that has 2 different diameter tubes, but there are exceptions...

Also, temp makes a HUGE difference in set up time for these products. The hotter it is, the faster it sets. I have heard of contractors who on really hot days will keep their tubes in a cooler until they are ready to use, just to get a little more working time. if you are doing DIY and have some flexability, try to avoid a really hot days, and try to get ALL your holes drilled and CLEANED before you start with the adhesive
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Old 09-14-2009, 09:12 AM   #14
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Anchor Bolts Red Head Vs Epoxy


Yeah it was pretty hot over 90 degrees that day , I had all the holes, ready but messed around with one adjusting the bolts. luckily the bolts I had problems with epoxy were not that critical and probably ommited them entirely. thanks for the adice on keep glue refridgerated.

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