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Old 06-28-2007, 07:31 PM   #16
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Am I getting Duped?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Carola View Post
Atlantic,

What about framing around the cut out with 2x's and then trimming the inside of the door with casings or whatever trim he has, and finishing off the cuts made and lentel put in on the concrete on the inside and outside and patching in the the concrete on the outside with stucco/paint or whatever the finish is?

Is there furring strips and sheetrock on the inside of the concrete wall, or is it just concrete and painted?
Joe, Your right, all that and more needs to be done, but in reality, I was going by the description of the work that was listed by the original poster who wrote:

"......To just reiterate, the job is basically knocking down and cutting a concrete
wall to fit a sliding glass door. Is there anyone that can give a ballpark figure of a "LOW END" estimate for a job like this, as well as a "high end" estimate should problems be encountered?
I guess if someone says that a job like this "even with a few hitches" shoudln't be more then such and such, I can gather if this is ridiculous or not.
To sum it up, if you had a family member or friend tell you that they had a concrete wall knocked down the size of about 8 feet by 6 feet to install a sliding glass door and they paid nearly 5 grand for the labor alone, would that raise any eyebrows or would that seem "normal?"

..> So I assumed, the actual work he wanted done, was what he described. If sheetrocking, insulation, finish carpentry, painting, sealing door & threshold, etc..etc... was also part of the job....then that obviously cranks the cost up, up, up. But, he didn't mention that, so I assumed that he was only pricing the work that he listed above....

It's possible that the pricing did include all that and even more (exterior alterations and trimwork too). It's also possible that it was as he stated. I am going by what the poster wrote....

Last edited by AtlanticWBConst.; 06-28-2007 at 07:53 PM.
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Old 06-29-2007, 09:40 AM   #17
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Am I getting Duped?


Yep, yep, yep. $5K may be a great deal for the job or it may be highway robbery. To the OP - get 3 quotes, make sure they are for identical work and the same materials. If they are all similar then go with the guy you know who has done good work for you in the past.
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Old 06-29-2007, 09:53 AM   #18
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Am I getting Duped?


Quote:
Originally Posted by AtlanticWBConst. View Post
Joe, Your right, all that and more needs to be done, but in reality, I was going by the description of the work that was listed by the original poster who wrote:

"......To just reiterate, the job is basically knocking down and cutting a concrete
wall to fit a sliding glass door. Is there anyone that can give a ballpark figure of a "LOW END" estimate for a job like this, as well as a "high end" estimate should problems be encountered?
I guess if someone says that a job like this "even with a few hitches" shoudln't be more then such and such, I can gather if this is ridiculous or not.
To sum it up, if you had a family member or friend tell you that they had a concrete wall knocked down the size of about 8 feet by 6 feet to install a sliding glass door and they paid nearly 5 grand for the labor alone, would that raise any eyebrows or would that seem "normal?"

..> So I assumed, the actual work he wanted done, was what he described. If sheetrocking, insulation, finish carpentry, painting, sealing door & threshold, etc..etc... was also part of the job....then that obviously cranks the cost up, up, up. But, he didn't mention that, so I assumed that he was only pricing the work that he listed above....

It's possible that the pricing did include all that and even more (exterior alterations and trimwork too). It's also possible that it was as he stated. I am going by what the poster wrote....

He aslo said this is his first post.

Quote:
The 2nd job is basically removing a smaller set of windows in the bedroom and installing an impact resistant sliding glass set of doors. The wall is pure concrete so there would be the labor of knocking down the wall and/or cutting through it. The size of the area for the sliding glass doors is right around 8 feet tall and 6 feet wide -- So the wall would have to be cut to fit the doors and a frame installed, etc.
That tells me right there that there's a lot more to it like I've been saying. This is why I'm surprised people are giving him estimates on the internet and without asking him him all these questions first. You know as well as I do that you can't just assume that that's all there is to his question or he even realizes what's involved labor wise to do all this.
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Old 06-29-2007, 05:45 PM   #19
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Am I getting Duped?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Carola View Post
......You know as well as I do that you can't just assume that that's all there is to his question or he even realizes what's involved labor wise to do all this.
My initial response to the original inquiry was:

"Can't give you even a ballpark on something like that without seeing it in person. In the industry, we never qive quotes over the phone for removals and installs because there can be very little work involved, or ALOT of extensive work involved."

When he simplified it, I took him for his adjusted description of the work as stated. I assumed that he was speaking about piece mealing it out - as some H.O.'s do...That is why my response started with this statement: "....Based on your description of the work..."

I have to agree with you about the fact that it is more than likely that the poster may not have accounted for ALL the actual work that was required for the job (FWIW - Alot of H.O.'s don't comprehend every step, process, & aspect of what is required to complete a project).
That is why, when we supply an estimate, quote, or proposal, we mention ALL the steps that are involved - so the HO gets a clear picture of exactly what the overall cost reflects. It's possible that the person that gave him the quote didn't elaborate and do that, and brought the suspicions of price-jacking on himself....

When you think about adding in the work for points not mentioned (all the work required to do such an install and bring it to a finished completion)...then the job as a whole, (with the added assumption that the poster left important details out)...would be a $4.5K to $5K project....

Last edited by AtlanticWBConst.; 06-29-2007 at 06:27 PM. Reason: spelling
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Old 06-29-2007, 07:04 PM   #20
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Am I getting Duped?


I just had a contractor install 2 sets of french doors in my walkout basement. Had him remove 2 standard doors and cut the concrete block to widen to fit new french doors. He charged me $3000 bucks to install both sets of doors, one of the few who would actually agree to do the job. Don't kid yourself, this is a big, big job and I think he lost money on the deal. He made it up on the larger project because he gave me a price and stuck to and finished the job. He got alot more work out of me because of it. Mark my words, most contractors do not want to custom install those doors thru concrete walls(IMHO). In my own experience, and calling many, many contractors to price this job, it is one that few want to do. It is not hard, per se, just hard to get it exactly right.(that according to my contractor)
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Old 06-30-2007, 02:01 PM   #21
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Am I getting Duped?


Ok,

I went back and checked our billing records. We have done the same exact cut outs and installs, but I could not find those records. This is the most similar job that I could find that we still had records on (it's from about 2 years ago).

Here were the charges for cutting out 2 window openings in a full height concrete basement wall. We used LVLS to support the new opening (We cut the opening straight up to the 1st floor bottom plates-easier way of doing it):

Concrete Freeze-wall window Install:2 mulled double windows provided by homeowner.
Fabrication and installation of a temporary Bracing system to support upper floors during removal of foundation areas and structural re-framing process
Cutting out and removal of 2 concrete areas approximately 7’-0” x 5’-2”.
Break-up and removal of all left-over concrete debris to dumpster location.
Fastening of Pressure treated 2’ x6’ lumber to create a triple jack system to support 5 inch L.V.L. Header along with a pressure treated bottom window double sill plate.
Wood Fasteners attached to concrete with 22 caliber powder actuated pins.
Use of sill-foam between all lumber and concrete contact points.
Installation of new window into openings.
Installation process to involve galvanized fasteners, Silicone sealant, Water & Ice flashing.
Use of exterior wood trim to properly match new windows to home.
$3988.00.

The price above reflected a "cost break" due to the fact that we were doing alot of additional remodeling work there.

The price did not include the following:

Building permit.
Insulation.
Additional framing to tie the window area into the other framed walls.
Insulation.
Sheetrock.
Windows to be installed.
Window jambs.
Interior window casing or any other trimwork.
Paintwork.
Debris Removal.

(the above work was performed, but was part of a separate charge arrangement)


We also did one slider door install into the same basement area. Hole was already cut out, but lacked a lintel:

Side sliding Doors Replaced with new swing-in entry style exterior door:
New Doors provided by homeowner.
Removal of existing Sliding door set and frame.
Preparation of old opening to except new doors.
Installation process to involve galvanized fasteners, Silicone sealants, Water & Ice flashing.
Installation of exterior wood trim to match door to home.
Per request of Homeowner - Material upgrades on exterior trim components. Extras costs to cover increased expenses of materials only. Labor charge and installation remain the same.
COST: Included in the Original Proposal #XXXX (Labor and basic installation materials)
SIDE DOOR REPLACEMENT ISSUE: Discovered structural defects in existing Door opening.
Following the removal of the existing slider doors, it was discovered that there was no appropriate support system installed above the door to support the concrete and gable end of home.
Installation of 5/16” thick Iron Lintel into header opening of doorway.
Installation of pressure treated 2x8 lumber to create necessary structural supports for new lintels.
Sealing up of areas around newly installed lintel to create waterproof surfaces.
$1898.00

(There was no hole to cut in the concrete, which would have added at least $1K+ to the overall cost)

Again, The price did not include the following:

building Permit.
Insulation.
Additional framing to tie the door area into the other framed walls.
Insulation.
Sheetrock.
Door iteslf - to be installed.
Interior door casing or any other trimwork.
Paintwork.
Debris Removal.

Last edited by AtlanticWBConst.; 07-02-2007 at 06:23 AM.
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