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Old 10-29-2012, 04:09 PM   #1
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Alternative to joist hangers for interior LVL


I'm opening up a load-bearing wall between a kitchen and dining room; total span is 12'. Structural engineer calls for a doubled 1 3/4 X 11 1/4 versa-lam header.

I'd like to push the header as far up as possible into the ceiling and to trim & connect existing ceiling joists in both rooms to the new LVL header. I'd like to minimize plaster work in the dining room, and would like to attach the dining room ceiling joists to the LVL without needing to open up the dining room ceiling like would be required for joist hangers.

Can I nail through one LVL into the dining room ceiling joists, then double the LVL and use standard nailing pattern to join them? Maybe add some simple blocking between those joists before nailing to the LVL? What size nails? Or lag bolts through holes in the doubled LVL?

Nail a standard 2-by to the dining room ceiling joists, and then nail the 1st LVL to that 2-by?

Reading various post on various forums, I'm not so sure about poking holes in the LVLs, lest they reduce its strength. I've looked at alternative joist hangers, but they all require at least some nailing on the joist or on the top of the header.

Thanks.

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Old 10-29-2012, 04:19 PM   #2
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Alternative to joist hangers for interior LVL


Lets see you have a Structural engineer involved but your not asking him these questions, and your asking people that could be from anyplace in the world that have never seen your house how to do it
There's a whole lot more involved to do this. Temperary walls built, piers or some form of support built under the post that are going to be holding up this beam all the way to some footing ECT.

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Old 10-29-2012, 04:56 PM   #3
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Alternative to joist hangers for interior LVL


any framing member that does not bear on a wall or post much be hung via a mechanical hanger.. this means non bearing joists, beams rafters and trusses must be in a hanger

if you cant get a double hanger for lvl you can get a extra heavy duty hanger for the first lvl then sister the second one if the engineer approves

Last edited by woodworkbykirk; 10-29-2012 at 05:02 PM.
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Old 10-29-2012, 05:55 PM   #4
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Alternative to joist hangers for interior LVL


chief,

per the 2009 International Residential Code, basis for most local and state building codes I refer you to the following section (check with your building official as your code may vary):

R802.6 Bearing. The ends of each rafter or ceiling joist shall have not less than 11/2 inches (38 mm) of bearing on wood or metal and not less than 3 inches (76 mm) on masonry or concrete.

obviously from this requirement the answer to your question would be no. you could discuss this with your structural engineer and should they concur with your thoughts and be willing to sign off on this type of attachment as being in compliance with the code requirements then you could do so. But it would require your engineer's sign-off since it does not meet the prescriptive requirements of the code.

hope this helps!
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Old 10-29-2012, 06:09 PM   #5
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Alternative to joist hangers for interior LVL


Quote:
Originally Posted by chieftaing
I'm opening up a load-bearing wall between a kitchen and dining room; total span is 12'. Structural engineer calls for a doubled 1 3/4 X 11 1/4 versa-lam header.

I'd like to push the header as far up as possible into the ceiling and to trim & connect existing ceiling joists in both rooms to the new LVL header. I'd like to minimize plaster work in the dining room, and would like to attach the dining room ceiling joists to the LVL without needing to open up the dining room ceiling like would be required for joist hangers.

Can I nail through one LVL into the dining room ceiling joists, then double the LVL and use standard nailing pattern to join them? Maybe add some simple blocking between those joists before nailing to the LVL? What size nails? Or lag bolts through holes in the doubled LVL?

Nail a standard 2-by to the dining room ceiling joists, and then nail the 1st LVL to that 2-by?

Reading various post on various forums, I'm not so sure about poking holes in the LVLs, lest they reduce its strength. I've looked at alternative joist hangers, but they all require at least some nailing on the joist or on the top of the header.

Thanks.
How come your not asking the SE? He HAS to give you the answer to this. You have permits for this?
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Old 10-29-2012, 06:28 PM   #6
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Alternative to joist hangers for interior LVL


Quote:
Originally Posted by chieftaing View Post
I'm opening up a load-bearing wall between a kitchen and dining room; total span is 12'. Structural engineer calls for a doubled 1 3/4 X 11 1/4 versa-lam header.

I'd like to push the header as far up as possible into the ceiling and to trim & connect existing ceiling joists in both rooms to the new LVL header. I'd like to minimize plaster work in the dining room, and would like to attach the dining room ceiling joists to the LVL without needing to open up the dining room ceiling like would be required for joist hangers.

Can I nail through one LVL into the dining room ceiling joists, then double the LVL and use standard nailing pattern to join them? Maybe add some simple blocking between those joists before nailing to the LVL? What size nails? Or lag bolts through holes in the doubled LVL?

Nail a standard 2-by to the dining room ceiling joists, and then nail the 1st LVL to that 2-by?

Reading various post on various forums, I'm not so sure about poking holes in the LVLs, lest they reduce its strength. I've looked at alternative joist hangers, but they all require at least some nailing on the joist or on the top of the header.

Thanks.
If ceiling load only on the joists, I've added the temp wall into the rooms up to the ceiling without making a ceiling cut back into the room and taken the main wall out and the plates. With access to the joists where the wall came out make the joist cuts and slide the hanger around all the cut joists wedged between the top of the plaster and the bottom of the joists. Get the lvl set in the hole and nail the hangers from in the attic space. make sure they pull up tight to the underside of the joists when nailing them, and do not allow any plaster or drywall to wedge between the hanger and joist.

there will be nails along the edge of the plater/drywall so they will need to be dealt with before the hanger can slide in successfully. A small metal sawz all blade helps...

Last edited by hand drive; 10-29-2012 at 06:30 PM.
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Old 10-29-2012, 06:54 PM   #7
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Alternative to joist hangers for interior LVL


based on the question.. they prob dont have permits.. or their trying to overthink things which will only irritate the hell outta the contractor

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