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Old 09-09-2011, 02:23 AM   #1
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3.5" lally column vs 6"x6" post


Is there any structural advantage to using a 3.5 steel lally column VS a 6x6 pressure treated post for supporting a girder made up of 3x 2x12s? I'm replacing an 83 x 3.5 lally column because it's poorly engineered and was going to build a brick pier, however several people suggested to go with a new steel lally column instead. I am having trouble locating a good steel supplier locally, and if a 6x6 can support a similar load to a 3.5 lally, I'd prefer the 6x6s as they are much more readily available and cheaper.

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Old 09-09-2011, 02:26 AM   #2
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3.5" lally column vs 6"x6" post


One is made out of steel, one is wood. One is smaller, and the other is larger. Wood shrinks over time, steel doesn't.

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Old 09-09-2011, 08:32 AM   #3
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3.5" lally column vs 6"x6" post


wood rots. Steel rusts.
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Old 09-09-2011, 09:42 AM   #4
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3.5" lally column vs 6"x6" post


The question that I have to ask, is, what foundation are you intending on putting under the column?

Replacing a column due to poor engineering, could you enlighten us on how it was determined to be poorly engineered.

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Old 09-09-2011, 01:00 PM   #5
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3.5" lally column vs 6"x6" post


Most 3.5" steel posts I've seen are rated between 15-20,000 pounds load capacity. I highly doubt a 6x6 comes remotely close to this. I know it can be a mis-leading topic here at times, but you DO NOT have to used a custom, built to length column post. A steel post with screw jack at the base is code compliant as well, as long as it meets the min. rating you need.

As stated above, it is critical that the post sits on a legitimate footing, not just the floor.
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Old 09-09-2011, 01:33 PM   #6
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3.5" lally column vs 6"x6" post


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Originally Posted by Jackofall1 View Post
The question that I have to ask, is, what foundation are you intending on putting under the column?

Replacing a column due to poor engineering, could you enlighten us on how it was determined to be poorly engineered.

Mark
It's just a crappy home-made column, the cap is far too thin for the load it's carrying and the top is also about a half inch out of alignment from the base. I was planning on leaving the foundation as is, it's about 12" thick and I'm not moving the post that is already there, just replacing it.
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Old 09-09-2011, 01:43 PM   #7
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3.5" lally column vs 6"x6" post


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Most 3.5" steel posts I've seen are rated between 15-20,000 pounds load capacity. I highly doubt a 6x6 comes remotely close to this. I know it can be a mis-leading topic here at times, but you DO NOT have to used a custom, built to length column post. A steel post with screw jack at the base is code compliant as well, as long as it meets the min. rating you need.

As stated above, it is critical that the post sits on a legitimate footing, not just the floor.
I'd read on a few manufacturers websites that the adjustable Jack-Posts could be used in permanent installations, but it seemed like the adjusting bit would need to be entombed in cement for it to meet code. Is there another way of securing the adjusting mechanism so that the column remains at a fixed length? What would pouring a proper footing entail? Could a footing be poured on top of the foundation or would I need to cut though the slab? The slab is about 12" thick above grade.
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Old 09-09-2011, 01:51 PM   #8
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3.5" lally column vs 6"x6" post


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Originally Posted by shadetree View Post
I'd read on a few manufacturers websites that the adjustable Jack-Posts could be used in permanent installations, but it seemed like the adjusting bit would need to be entombed in cement for it to meet code.

Yes they should be encased to lock them in place. Doing so usually takes alot of load off the screw as well & makes them far more stable.

Is there another way of securing the adjusting mechanism so that the column remains at a fixed length? What would pouring a proper footing entail? Could a footing be poured on top of the foundation or would I need to cut though the slab? The slab is about 12" thick above grade.
if you're saying the footing is ABOVE or at floor level, then I would suggest using a fixed height post. Here's a manufacturer that may help you out:

http://www.tigerbrandjackpost.com/fixed.htm
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Old 09-10-2011, 03:11 PM   #9
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3.5" lally column vs 6"x6" post


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Originally Posted by jomama45 View Post
if you're saying the footing is ABOVE or at floor level, then I would suggest using a fixed height post. Here's a manufacturer that may help you out:

http://www.tigerbrandjackpost.com/fixed.htm
I'm honestly not sure there is a footing under the post as it. Right now the post just rests on the flat slab, no bolts or anything. Could an footing be poured on top of the slab to entomb the mechanism for an adjustable post?

I may be going back to just building the column out of cinder blocks
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Old 09-10-2011, 03:49 PM   #10
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3.5" lally column vs 6"x6" post


All supporting members need an adequate footing designed to carry the load exerted on them. The first you should do is determine whether there is a footing. Sometimes when the basement floor is poured the ground where the support columns will rest is dug out to create thicker footing areas within the slab. This is rare. Usually the post footings are poured along with the perimeter footing or shortly thereafter but prior to the basement floor. Then later after the 1st floor is framed, etc., a basement slab is poured over the footing, encasing the base of the post in place.

So first determine whether you have a separate footing for the post and the footing is the proper size and thickness. That the post has supported the girder and presumably the girder, floor, etc. is structurally fine, likely you have a footing and the post was adequate. Just better to check.

As for steel posts vs wood, I like steel because they can be installed to remain adjustable. The issue is that you need a plate that fully supports the entire built up girder (three 2x12's I believe you said). If you used a 6x6 the surface area would fully cover the cross section of your girder.

With steel posts, be sure to get one that is on continuous piece of tubular steel, not the kind comprised of two 4' sections that fit together with pins. These cannot be used as permanent support per code.
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Old 09-10-2011, 03:50 PM   #11
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3.5" lally column vs 6"x6" post


What you want to replace it with is a cement filled steel post. This is available at any big box store. Just cut it to length. As all have said make sure there's a footing for whatever you end up with.
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Old 09-12-2011, 02:23 PM   #12
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What you want to replace it with is a cement filled steel post. This is available at any big box store. Just cut it to length. As all have said make sure there's a footing for whatever you end up with.
Not down here, the closest thing to structural steel posts at HD/Lowes/ect are 3" galvanized posts for something like chain link fencing. I guess it's because no one here has basements.
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Old 09-12-2011, 02:34 PM   #13
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3.5" lally column vs 6"x6" post


shadetree, they should have them in the building supplies area, or be able to order it. I have to go out to our Lowe's this weekend, along with the Home Depot next town over, so I will look and see if they have a SKU# on the lolly's at either one. I know that the Home depot stocks them, where the rebar and concrete supplies are. Lally Corp has a 800# on their website, but does not give a list of retailers. Here is what homedepot.com shows for "jack" posts http://www.homedepot.com/Building-Ma...searchNav=true
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Old 09-12-2011, 04:51 PM   #14
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3.5" lally column vs 6"x6" post


8 foot lally from HD
The Dean Column 8 ft. Lolly Column is 8 ft. in length and cannot be adjusted for security. The post can be used in numerous situations to support up to 14,000 lb.

* 8 ft. length
* Can support up to 14,000 lb.
* 3-1/2 in. width
* Not adjustable
* MFG Brand Name : Lally Column
* MFG Model # : 128330
* MFG Part # : 128330


http://www.homedepot.com/buy/buildin...mn-129996.html
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Old 09-12-2011, 05:38 PM   #15
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3.5" lally column vs 6"x6" post


They don't sell those down here. If I put somewhere else (I tried Boston), it'll have the pickup in store screen like what one would expect. However, all the stores in Austin, it just says "This item is currently not available in your local store." I tried calling 3 different stores around Austin and they said that the SKU & model number number weren't coming up in the system. None of the people I spoke to seemed to know what a lally column was either

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8 foot lally from HD
The Dean Column 8 ft. Lolly Column is 8 ft. in length and cannot be adjusted for security. The post can be used in numerous situations to support up to 14,000 lb.

* 8 ft. length
* Can support up to 14,000 lb.
* 3-1/2 in. width
* Not adjustable
* MFG Brand Name : Lally Column
* MFG Model # : 128330
* MFG Part # : 128330


http://www.homedepot.com/buy/buildin...mn-129996.html

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