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Old 04-25-2013, 09:21 AM   #31
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2nd floor beam


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This is one answer I could not find online for some reason. I guess after this I'll stop bothering you guys. For a house with a second floor that does not cover the same area as the first floor. An example would be like you have a house 1200 sq ft and the upstairs is only 600 sq ft. The rim joist for the 2nd floor is obviously not going to go around the entire first floor perimeter. So, basically three quarters of the rim joist will sit on an exterior wall supported by foundation but what about the other part of the rim joist? Does the other wall have to supported all the way to the foundation to support the remaining rim joist? Thanks guys....sorry for bugging you.
That makes it a little clearer. The 'overhanging' wall could be supported on a wall downstairs, which in turn would be on a foundation wall and footer.
Alternatively, if the downstairs was more open-plan in configuration, there would need to be a beam supporting this wall. This could be flush within the thickness of the floor or - more likely if it is a long span - under the ceiling.
At each end, that beam would need supporting on a column, possibly within the thickness of the wall downstairs, and the support for that would go down to a substantial base.

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Old 04-25-2013, 09:28 AM   #32
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2nd floor beam


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are you positive the 2nd floor joists do not extend out to the 1st floor walls? my second floor living space is smaller than the first floor, but my 2nd floor joists extend out to the perimeter of the first floor walls. my roof sits on the second floor deck and has a few dormers that creates sufficient space for the bedrooms.

got some photos of your home from the exterior?
Im not sure if they extend out. I guess what im asking is do rim joists have to sit on a wall that is foundation supported? So, your second floor joists span the entire length of the first floor? I figured since your upper floor is smaller than first floor then why would the rim joists need to extend all the way around the perimeter of the first floor top plate when part is not going to be used. Do you see what I mean? Since you have a 2 story house do just your load bearing walls support the roof above or are there any beams?
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Old 04-25-2013, 09:29 AM   #33
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2nd floor beam


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Why do you have so many beams? Where are the joists?
Because my upstairs sticks out over the 1st floor....

Here are the floor joists...



and how it sticks out...

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Old 04-25-2013, 09:33 AM   #34
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2nd floor beam


my second floor joists are supported by the exterior walls and two (either side of a central hallway) interior load bearing walls (on first floor). roof rafters are supported on exterior walls only. now the issue in my home is the two interior load bearing walls are not supported by a beam, the beam was installed in the middle of the hallway. so I have a hallway that is crowned like a road due to the load from the second floor pushing down on the 1st floor joists, which in turn cause lift on the joist ends over the one beam.

I've got to install two new beams in my basement, but I will not attempt to jack things as my home is a 100 years old with lath and plaster.
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Old 04-25-2013, 01:16 PM   #35
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2nd floor beam


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Originally Posted by ddawg16 View Post
Because my upstairs sticks out over the 1st floor....

Here are the floor joists...



and how it sticks out...

Oh ok so you have those flush beams on the first floor support the second floor instead of some load bearing walls on the first floor?
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Old 04-25-2013, 01:22 PM   #36
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2nd floor beam


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Originally Posted by GBrackins View Post
my second floor joists are supported by the exterior walls and two (either side of a central hallway) interior load bearing walls (on first floor). roof rafters are supported on exterior walls only. now the issue in my home is the two interior load bearing walls are not supported by a beam, the beam was installed in the middle of the hallway. so I have a hallway that is crowned like a road due to the load from the second floor pushing down on the 1st floor joists, which in turn cause lift on the joist ends over the one beam.

I've got to install two new beams in my basement, but I will not attempt to jack things as my home is a 100 years old with lath and plaster.
Do rim joists for a second floor have to sit on a wall that is either exterior wall or a wall or beam that has a load path all the way to the foundation?
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Old 04-25-2013, 01:36 PM   #37
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2nd floor beam


they can be either way, depends on the design of the home. usually I see them on the exterior wall
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Old 04-25-2013, 01:56 PM   #38
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2nd floor beam


ddawg's pics show a 3rd way of supporting the (rim?) joist - on cantilevered
beams.

Let's see if I've got this right - and hopefully he'll correct me if I'm wrong - but I would guess most of the weight is taken by the heavy (LVL?) beam in the foreground. That looks to support the rim joists through that nifty steel connection. In turn, the rim joists tie together the cantilevered ends of the floor joists. Presumably there's a wall going above the rim? There will be a substantial post below the heavy beam, hidden behind the strand board?

Nice job.

PS didn't notice your earlier pics showing the steel beam!

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Old 04-25-2013, 02:12 PM   #39
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2nd floor beam


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they can be either way, depends on the design of the home. usually I see them on the exterior wall
But either way the rim joist has to be supported all the way to the foundation/footings?
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Old 04-25-2013, 02:17 PM   #40
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2nd floor beam


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But either way the rim joist has to be supported all the way to the foundation/footings?
Yes, but the 'load path' does not have to be in a vertical line, as ddawg's cantilevered beams show.
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Old 04-25-2013, 03:06 PM   #41
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Yes, but the 'load path' does not have to be in a vertical line, as ddawg's cantilevered beams show.
His rim joist looks like its acting as a beam that is over hanging and the joists are canilevered over. Also, am I seeing flush beams with steel brackets attached to the rim joist?
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Old 04-25-2013, 03:07 PM   #42
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2nd floor beam


You have to excuse the silly smile on my face....I'm a pretty happy camper at this point getting that beam up....but if you look under the steel beam you will see a 6x6 post...that takes the downward force of that section...my foundation below that point is a 4' x 4' pad that is about 3' deep....

Then on the angled wall I have some 4x6 posts under the PSL beams and the foundation in that area is another large pad....



If you click on the link in my signature you will see a lot more pics.
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Old 04-25-2013, 05:00 PM   #43
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2nd floor beam


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they can be either way, depends on the design of the home. usually I see them on the exterior wall
Let me be honest with you guys. I apologize for all the questions. It's just that over the past year or so I have been trying to learn everything construction related and I am very hard of myself. I try to learn everything. Maybe that is just not realistic. So, I come on here and ask tons of questions. I get overwhelmed then I get down on myself. Any words of advice?
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Old 04-25-2013, 05:06 PM   #44
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2nd floor beam


I find that if I take something complicated, or confusing that I'm trying to learn and break it down into smaller pieces I can digest it better.
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Old 04-25-2013, 07:28 PM   #45
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It depends on the design or your house. If it is a cape style house there is no rim joist on the second floor. If it is a colonial, there will be a rim (Band) joist on the second floor, and the second floor is often cantileverd out over the first floor exterior wall two feet. It all depends on the style of house it is. See? It all depends.

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