22x14 DECK W/ROOF SLIGHT SWAY NEED HELP FROM EXPERTS

clfdpops1 · 06-03-2012, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kwikfishron

You don’t nail vinyl siding or soffit with a nail gun.

I’ve never done or seen 2X’s notched in (let in) to the top or bottom of joist on a deck.

I’m having ugly visions right now.

Post some pictures so we can see what the heck you got going on if you want to get the most out of this site.

True enough. It was definitely a mistake as the first piece I used the gun on other than the edges cracked the vinyl. It's a two-man job and I'm trying to do it on my own. Any ideas on how to brace up the one end as I fasten the other?

clfdpops1 · 06-03-2012, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joecaption

What's 12" X 12 footers got to do with vinyl siding.
Vinyl siding is hung with 1-1/4 roofing nails by hand, not with a roofing gun.
Nailed to tight and it's all got to be redone.
Where's those pictures?

Appreciate your response. The vinyl siding when you're talking about "nailing to tight" assume you're talking about expansion, etc. When installing on the side of the house that seems reasonable. However, when installing in the ceiling is it that important? The other problem is that the trusses are on 24 inch centers and the vinyl is so thin it seems to me there may be a tendency for it to sag. Thoughts??

clfdpops1 · 06-03-2012, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 21boat

I Dont need photos. You mage the homeowners classic mistake, NO Diagonal lumber cut into joist before flooring or underneath the joist. So much for mister Home inspector that showed up..

I've built decks that cantilever over 4 feet and NO sway was involved. Afain its all about cross bracing in the joist. Then if there's any sway the Whole deck would sway then it goes to the post are to far apart or to thin VS height of deck and or looses Post bolted to footer.

Thanks for your response. I've seen a lot of decks and had to rebuild some that were built by professionals and although you have a good idea which I wish I would have thought of before putting the deck plating down I have never seen diagonal cross members inset into a deck structure. I would venture to say that to a professional it would be labor intensive and eat away at their profit. But, as I said it is a good idea as long as you have taken that the "insetting" into consideration when you did the engineering assessments as doing something like this would weaken load capacity.

clfdpops1 · 06-03-2012, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clfdpops1

Appreciate your response. The vinyl siding when you're talking about "nailing to tight" assume you're talking about expansion, etc. When installing on the side of the house that seems reasonable. However, when installing in the ceiling is it that important? The other problem is that the trusses are on 24 inch centers and the vinyl is so thin it seems to me there may be a tendency for it to sag. Thoughts??

Figured out how to post pictures. Please take a look.

framer52 · 06-03-2012, 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clfdpops1

Thanks for your response. I've seen a lot of decks and had to rebuild some that were built by professionals and although you have a good idea which I wish I would have thought of before putting the deck plating down I have never seen diagonal cross members inset into a deck structure. I would venture to say that to a professional it would be labor intensive and eat away at their profit. But, as I said it is a good idea as long as you have taken that the "insetting" into consideration when you did the engineering assessments as doing something like this would weaken load capacity.

Why not let in the 2x underneath the framing?

framer52 · 06-03-2012, 05:53 PM

By the way, I am a pro that builds a few decks each year.

The reason that the pros walked away is the obsessive detail to which you have gone.

That and the beam being covered with OSB is not going to hold up with water coming from the top.

You need a hand when installing vinyl soffiit to start with. After the first piece you won't.

GBrackins · 06-03-2012, 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clfdpops1

Appreciate your response. The vinyl siding when you're talking about "nailing to tight" assume you're talking about expansion, etc. When installing on the side of the house that seems reasonable. However, when installing in the ceiling is it that important? The other problem is that the trusses are on 24 inch centers and the vinyl is so thin it seems to me there may be a tendency for it to sag. Thoughts??

Install 1x3 strapping at 16" o.c. perpendicular to the bottom chord of the truss to attach your ceiling to if you are concerned about sag. Vinyl needs some give for expansion/contraction, if not provided it may bow out when it can not expand.

**kwikfishron** · 06-03-2012, 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by framer52

Why not let in the 2x underneath the framing?

I don't know what else he could do at this point with the decorative columns in the way.

GBrackins · 06-03-2012, 06:10 PM

The important diagonal bracing is from your beam to the columns. Imagine pushing on the side of your deck up in the air at the drop beam. What keeps the deck from being pushed? With a roof on it it's more subject to lateral movement.

Check out this document http://www.awc.org/publications/DCA/DCA6/DCA6-09.pdf especially page 14. It shows the diagonal bracing requirement for elevated decks. This is what Daniel Holzman was telling you.

The cross bracing is typically metal straps that connect the top of one joist to the bottom of an adjacent joists. Then you connect one to the bottom of the same joist to the top of the adjacent joists. Form an "X" so that it keeps the joists from rotating/leaning.

GBrackins · 06-03-2012, 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kwikfishron

I don't know what else he could do at this point with the decorative columns in the way.

So very true ....

Other than figure out a wall to properly support the deck (which I certainly won't give suggestions on) and reconstruct the columns to include the diagonal bracing.

If it were my deck I'd contact a professional engineer and get them to come to the site for a consult, and see how they would fix it.

That or potentially risk having it all come down in a high wind event. In a partially enclosed structure you have more wind force than a typically roof because the wind acts on the roof and the ceiling at the same time. Kinda the same as with a sail boat. The goal is to find a way to keep the boat from moving when the wind acts on the sail.

**kwikfishron** · 06-03-2012, 06:50 PM

He may be able to do something with a steel gusset on the post to beam connection and maybe stay within the box.

Is that glulam treated?

clfdpops1 · 06-09-2012, 11:30 AM

When you talk about 2x are you talking about installing firring strips on 16inch centers perpendicular to the trusses and then nailing the vinyl to it?

clfdpops1 · 06-09-2012, 11:38 AM

Thanks for providing the reference. I thought of that as well, as another gent mentioned the decorative columns may be in the way. However, the boxes I've built above the columns on the lower structure are about 2 feet in length so I may be able to pull off the CDX on one side and attach the diagonal member about 3' long to an existing bolt (or drill another hole if the existing bolt is 90 degrees out of phase) and drill a hole in the glulam and put another 1/2 x 6" bolt and nut on it. That might do the trick. What about the upper boxes? If I remember right they are only about 16 inches high before I run into the trusses, or should I even put the diagonal cross members on the upper beams?

clfdpops1 · 06-09-2012, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GBrackins

The important diagonal bracing is from your beam to the columns. Imagine pushing on the side of your deck up in the air at the drop beam. What keeps the deck from being pushed? With a roof on it it's more subject to lateral movement.

Check out this document http://www.awc.org/publications/DCA/DCA6/DCA6-09.pdf especially page 14. It shows the diagonal bracing requirement for elevated decks. This is what Daniel Holzman was telling you.

The cross bracing is typically metal straps that connect the top of one joist to the bottom of an adjacent joists. Then you connect one to the bottom of the same joist to the top of the adjacent joists. Form an "X" so that it keeps the joists from rotating/leaning.

Thanks. You cannot seem them, but I have 12 inch metal T's at the top of of each post where the glulam sits on it. I like the idea of metal strapping, as it does not take much room and should outlast a wood support structure. I have a couple of extra 4 foot long galvanized metal bars that are already pre-drilled (same ones I used to connect up the glulams with the 8x8 posts) I could just run them diagonal and bolt them in. Matter of fact I will put one on each side of the glulam and 6x6 posts to add extra strength. I'm thinking that should work. Thanks for the suggestion! My thoughts are to only have the cross braces at a max of 3 feet in length, but they will not form an X but rather a V with the apex bolted to the posts and other ends bolts to the glulam. This should work, correct?

clfdpops1 · 06-09-2012, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GBrackins

So very true ....

Other than figure out a wall to properly support the deck (which I certainly won't give suggestions on) and reconstruct the columns to include the diagonal bracing.

If it were my deck I'd contact a professional engineer and get them to come to the site for a consult, and see how they would fix it.

That or potentially risk having it all come down in a high wind event. In a partially enclosed structure you have more wind force than a typically roof because the wind acts on the roof and the ceiling at the same time. Kinda the same as with a sail boat. The goal is to find a way to keep the boat from moving when the wind acts on the sail.

Appreciate your response. We have had several high wind storms since the deck and roof have been attached, high being 65-75 mph gusts and I've gone out on the deck and there has been minimal if any movement, so think its solid. That being said I will be adding the reinforcement mentioned in one of my other responses to get the slight movement out of it. I think the way I have the railing bolted down and its corners also helps to strengthen it was well. What about doing the diagonal cross members underneath the deck that someone mentioned, shouldn't I be able to accomplish the same thing with galvanized metal bar stock?

Understand what you're talking about when you talk the sail issue and associated wind lift on the roof which is why I added all the extra strapping.

06-03-2012, 05:53 PM	#21
framer52 Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Utica, NY Posts: 507	22x14 DECK W/ROOF SLIGHT SWAY NEED HELP FROM EXPERTS By the way, I am a pro that builds a few decks each year. The reason that the pros walked away is the obsessive detail to which you have gone. That and the beam being covered with OSB is not going to hold up with water coming from the top. You need a hand when installing vinyl soffiit to start with. After the first piece you won't.

06-03-2012, 06:10 PM	#24
GBrackins Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Fairhaven, Massachusetts Posts: 2,356	22x14 DECK W/ROOF SLIGHT SWAY NEED HELP FROM EXPERTS The important diagonal bracing is from your beam to the columns. Imagine pushing on the side of your deck up in the air at the drop beam. What keeps the deck from being pushed? With a roof on it it's more subject to lateral movement. Check out this document http://www.awc.org/publications/DCA/DCA6/DCA6-09.pdf especially page 14. It shows the diagonal bracing requirement for elevated decks. This is what Daniel Holzman was telling you. The cross bracing is typically metal straps that connect the top of one joist to the bottom of an adjacent joists. Then you connect one to the bottom of the same joist to the top of the adjacent joists. Form an "X" so that it keeps the joists from rotating/leaning. __________________ Gary "You get what you pay for, and sometimes free costs more!"

06-03-2012, 06:50 PM	#26
kwikfishron Mod Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Kansas/Oregon Coast Posts: 4,748	22x14 DECK W/ROOF SLIGHT SWAY NEED HELP FROM EXPERTS He may be able to do something with a steel gusset on the post to beam connection and maybe stay within the box. Is that glulam treated? __________________ A Picture Is Worth A Thousand Words Especially In The DIY Chatroom -NEW MEMBERS- Please include your basic location in your profile. Some of the answers given are specific to a Region or State. Last edited by kwikfishron; 06-03-2012 at 07:04 PM.

06-09-2012, 11:30 AM	#27
clfdpops1 Newbie Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 20	22x14 DECK W/ROOF SLIGHT SWAY NEED HELP FROM EXPERTS When you talk about 2x are you talking about installing firring strips on 16inch centers perpendicular to the trusses and then nailing the vinyl to it?

06-09-2012, 11:38 AM	#28
clfdpops1 Newbie Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 20	22x14 DECK W/ROOF SLIGHT SWAY NEED HELP FROM EXPERTS Thanks for providing the reference. I thought of that as well, as another gent mentioned the decorative columns may be in the way. However, the boxes I've built above the columns on the lower structure are about 2 feet in length so I may be able to pull off the CDX on one side and attach the diagonal member about 3' long to an existing bolt (or drill another hole if the existing bolt is 90 degrees out of phase) and drill a hole in the glulam and put another 1/2 x 6" bolt and nut on it. That might do the trick. What about the upper boxes? If I remember right they are only about 16 inches high before I run into the trusses, or should I even put the diagonal cross members on the upper beams?

22x14 DECK W/ROOF SLIGHT SWAY NEED HELP FROM EXPERTS