1950's Roof Framing Strength - Building & Construction - Page 2 - DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum


Go Back   DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum > Home Improvement > Building & Construction

CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY...IT'S FREE!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-16-2006, 08:40 AM   #16
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 94
Rewards Points: 75
Default

1950's Roof Framing Strength


Quote:
" had to add this as a final word. I hope all of us in construction build to greater standards then codes require. I know I do....I rely on sound engineering and design, as well as experience...not to cheat the process, but to build the best homes and buildings I can."
Sorry for your bad experiences with your local code official.

But that does not mean that all code officials are bad just as not all builders are bad.

Unfortunately, I cannot agree with your statement above because the advice you have given in the thread is not accurate and is not based on any good engineering or good building practice.

Suspending concentrated loads from screws mounted to the underside of joists is very bad practice and potentially dangerous no matter how you look at it.

Others have been correct in that the loads need to be distributed over the tops of the joists to provide the best load distribution.

And I'm not buying your stories about the lawsuit of the building code official.

Conflicts with code officials are handled by mandatory appeals boards set up in the community in which the official presides.

Appeals boards resolve disputes between contractors and code officials.

But we'll leave it at that.

In closing, we will simply have to agree to disagree on what constitutes adequate building standards and practices.

In this case, I'm afraid, joasis is dead wrong...and the owner in this thread needs to consult his loacl building officials and engineers for an appropriate response.

Advertisement

manhattan42 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-16-2006, 02:22 PM   #17
General Contractor
 
joasis's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 876
Rewards Points: 500
Default

1950's Roof Framing Strength


My municipality contracts for liability reasons the building inspector duties. I have won, and would do so again...the board of appeals can also be utilized by expert testimony, PERIOD. Since the local board of appeals (comprised of the city board) failed to act to my satisfaction, I pursued the matter in civil court. The inspector admitted under oath, in a deposition, that he had NO FORMAL training in engineering.....NO FORMAL education in the construction trades, and NO EVIDENCE, other then his (similar to your position) interpretation of the holy grail. He lost, and damages were awarded. My complaint against him resulted in his loss of credentials. And for the record, a state inspector was ready to testify regarding the poor judgement which led to the dispute. I do not live in fear of the mighty inspectors, I enjoy working with out state's inspectors, and the building inspector we now have is knowledgable, practical, and professional. He does not carry the IRC with him to wield as a sword to enforce his opinion. Now thats the last word from me, let the others enjoy the thread.

By the way, you haven't said how you can be both a builder and "code official"?
joasis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-16-2006, 04:25 PM   #18
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 94
Rewards Points: 75
Default

1950's Roof Framing Strength


Quote:
"By the way, you haven't said how you can be both a builder and "code official"?"
Didn't think it was necessary.

I've been a builder for nearly 30 years and also am a nationally certified code official in several building catagories. Nothing odd about that.

Most code officials, and in fact, the best code officials, are professionals in the trades and wells as their code certification fields.

No conflicts of interest there.

The only 'issue' is that if one builds within a jurisdiction in which he also works as a code official: he cannot inspect his own work and the municipality must engage the services of an independent code official to inspect his work for him. He must have another independent code official examine his plans, issue the permits, and so on...

The builder/code official has to jump all the hoops just like anyone else.

No conflicts of interest there.
---------------------

As far as litigation goes, prevailing or losing in court does not necessarily demonstrate right or wrong....it can often merely demonstrate what kind of mood a judge was in the day of the hearing or who had deeper pockets to pay for attorneys.

As far as the code official having final authority, the law grants this. The code official is the authority having jurisdiction and ultimately the one who does have 'final say'.

One can pursue administrative or legal appeals to his final interpretation, but relief can only be granted for reasons that the official did not apply the code as intended, was beyond his bounds in applying his authority, or some other technical failure.

As far as the final authority to interpret and apply, the code official has the final authority, and no one else

But litigitiouness what it is, any one can sue anybody else for any reason they want...and as long as they can keep paying for attorney...well, they may get their way simply by attrition...

But it doesn't mean that the one who prevails pursued justice or that he was vindicated by his win.

As far as code enforcement goes, however, the Code Official does have final authority, provided he is acting fully within the law.

The Law says so.
manhattan42 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-16-2006, 05:02 PM   #19
General Contractor
 
joasis's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 876
Rewards Points: 500
Default

1950's Roof Framing Strength


Finally, you have made some points I agree with....except, the grantor of the authority ultimately decides...the building codes are not granted to be LAW unless enacted by the municpality.

I won, because he was wrong and I was right and I am not willing to take the attitude, you cannot fight city hall. He was wrong, he caused me damage, and I went after him in civil court and won. Had he been a city employee, It would have been far more difficult to win, but had it takn months or years, I still would have pursued it because when you have been wronged, and damaged, you are entitled to seek relief. I resent the idea you are implying that anyone can win, right or wrong, by just having the cash to fight til you exhaust the other side. If I hadn't been right, I would have complied with the idiot and that would have been that.

I respect your last post because you have explained your expertise, and credentials, but I still disagree with your position. I respect the idea of staying on the far side of safety, but IMO the work initially discussed will work as planned. Had you been the inspector on the job that cost the other guy a lot of grief, you probably would have had the knowledge and experience to see what we were doing was well planned and executed, and not tried to dismiss a Stamped and Certified Engineer as an idiot and me as a "cowboy" breaking the rules as he saw fit to enforce.

Most code officials, and in fact, the best code officials, are professionals in the trades and wells as their code certification fields.

Most are, in your area, maybe. Most here are retired plumbers, electricians, or builders who take the courses and get the card, and most are decent guys who understand real world construction.
I would not try to be an inspector, simply because I don't have the experience in the mechanical trades that I feel would be neccessary, and frankly, how can anyone get all the squares filled to be really competant in all areas unless you devoted your life's work to that end?

I will end this thread with the usual "thank God I live in a state where common sense still prevails and we don't place officials above the law.
joasis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-16-2006, 05:48 PM   #20
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 4
Rewards Points: 10
Default

1950's Roof Framing Strength


I think This is all very interesting but I think this thread has been hijacked. I really don't know if I should have or still need to get this inspected. Not a bad suggestion but all the other stuff is a whole another issue.

I wonder if I was to hang one of those ADULT (Marital Aid) Swings in my bedroom, if I would need to get a permit and have it inspected? Of course, the weight is no where near the same as an engine. At least not yet! LOL
KempLN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-16-2006, 06:46 PM   #21
General Contractor
 
joasis's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 876
Rewards Points: 500
Default

1950's Roof Framing Strength


Sure didn't mean to hijack your thread, I was only offering advice, but I love a good debate. It's up to you what you decide to do, I know what I would do, and others will have their own opinions. I still think your plan looks OK to me.
joasis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-17-2006, 11:06 AM   #22
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 94
Rewards Points: 75
Default

1950's Roof Framing Strength


Have your code office and/or a design professional examine your plans and your structure.

Your homemade lift shown in the intial photo is extremely dangerous and can cause serious damage to life and limb.

It is otherwise impossible to tell by anyone here whether your structure will hold the proposed weight based an a limited description and a fuzzy photo.

Only a local professional who can actually examine the structure can make that call with any accuracy.

Stating otherwise is completely irresponsible.

Advertisement


Last edited by manhattan42; 06-17-2006 at 11:09 AM.
manhattan42 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Please help with the design of this roof jaymay75 Building & Construction 1 05-06-2008 10:44 AM
Flat roof - Rolled? - leaks Advice? JJ2001 Roofing/Siding 4 11-19-2006 07:17 AM
Framing Attic Walls but Roof Has SAG! luckestryke Building & Construction 1 04-27-2006 09:40 PM
Sagging roof - framing question G.P. Carpentry 7 12-26-2005 05:32 AM
Need help with framing roof for sunroom diehard_1955 Carpentry 1 04-27-2005 11:24 PM




Top of Page | View New Posts