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Old 06-27-2012, 05:03 PM   #1
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1921 remodel


I got a question about a couple walls in this 1921 house I am going to remodel.

The interior walls are 2" x 3 1/4"? framing...... The interior is divided into basically 4 squares, the walls running North and South are non bearing while the East and West wall is supporting the ceiling joist with a beam that is hog wired to a 2 x 6 that is layed on its side acting as a ledger for the joist to sit on. Does any of that make sense?

Now for my question, I need to open up 2 areas between the kitchen and dining room,The openings are 36"wide and 30" wide, should I build a temp wall and tear out the 2 x 3's and frame the East/West wall with 2x4's with proper headers over the openings or is there a way to work with making headers while retaining the 2x3's?

And before anyone gets all wound up yes I'm getting permits, I just want to have my ducks in a row when I present my prints to the county office. Just trying to avoid any delays. Thanks in advance.

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Old 06-27-2012, 05:33 PM   #2
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Welcome to the forum. A couple things. Are you for certain your lumber measures 2" x 3 1/4" ? In the old days a 2" x 4" stud actually measured 2" x 4".. Today, if you were to walk into Home Depot and buy a 2" x 4" it would actually measure 1 1/2" x 3 1/2" . After you clarify your studs are indeed what you say they are I can offer more advice.

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Old 06-27-2012, 05:55 PM   #3
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Welcome to the forum. A couple things. Are you for certain your lumber measures 2" x 3 1/4" ? In the old days a 2" x 4" stud actually measured 2" x 4".. Today, if you were to walk into Home Depot and buy a 2" x 4" it would actually measure 1 1/2" x 3 1/2" . After you clarify your studs are indeed what you say they are I can offer more advice.
I see you are in Pheonix, This house is up in Superior Az, Damn, you are correct sir after thinking about it.

Last edited by 1921MoneyPit; 06-27-2012 at 05:57 PM.
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Old 06-27-2012, 06:00 PM   #4
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3 1/2" is right, I took some scraps and sandwiched them together like a header would be and had a 1/4" on either side.
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Old 06-27-2012, 06:06 PM   #5
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Okay, just clarifying. If all your doing is making a couple of door openings you would really only be trimming a 1/4 inch of roughly 10 2x4's. If you have a table saw or know someone who does that would take a matter of 10 minutes to trim them up. As far as the header goes that won't be an issue at all. For a bearing header you would stand up 2 2x12's and sandwich them together making them 3'' wide if that makes sense. Even though it will be set back from your wall a 1/4 of an inch it won't cause any issues.As far as your "beam that's hog wired" that is a new one to me. lol! Possible to take a photo? Or possible someone here might know what you are referring to.
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Old 06-27-2012, 06:09 PM   #6
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Uhhh... I must have been typing when you changed your post.. So they do measure 2'' x 4'' then?
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Old 06-27-2012, 06:15 PM   #7
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Okay, just clarifying. If all your doing is making a couple of door openings you would really only be trimming a 1/4 inch of roughly 10 2x4's. If you have a table saw or know someone who does that would take a matter of 10 minutes to trim them up. As far as the header goes that won't be an issue at all. For a bearing header you would stand up 2 2x12's and sandwich them together making them 3'' wide if that makes sense. Even though it will be set back from your wall a 1/4 of an inch it won't cause any issues.As far as your "beam that's hog wired" that is a new one to me. lol! Possible to take a photo? Or possible someone here might know what you are referring to.
Lol, yea the house looks like it was cobbled together by blind 5 yr olds. Only reason I noticed the hog wired beam was someone took out 127" of that load bearing wall. I had to frame up a new wall because of safety concerns It was sagging maybe an 1/4".
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Old 06-27-2012, 06:19 PM   #8
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Uhhh... I must have been typing when you changed your post.. So they do measure 2'' x 4'' then?
Lol, give me a couple hrs I'm gonna run out and take some measurements and snap some pics.
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Old 06-27-2012, 06:26 PM   #9
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Yeah, doubt you hardly hit any traffic that far east! lucky you !
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Old 06-27-2012, 08:23 PM   #10
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Yeah, doubt you hardly hit any traffic that far east! lucky you !
Yea I can get out to the house in 35min.

Ok here we go, the interior walls are constructed out of 1 1/2" x 2 1/2" studs. WTF is that all about.


I also looked in the attic at the hog wire beam cluster. Looks like what they did was took the wall down that the ceiling joist rested on and put the beam in sitting on the top plate. The joist where being held up by the hog wire! Lol good grief, I not well versed on the wood construction deal but even I know that is just wrong in so many ways.
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Old 06-27-2012, 09:35 PM   #11
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The home is on a concrete slab correct? And indeed those are/were bearing walls you for sure want to upgrade to 2x4 studs if not 2x6. And just as you said you will need to build a temp wall, and a lot of cases you would have to build 2 temp walls. One wall on each side of the joists, but in your case, with the previous diyers tying a 2x6 in the ceiling with coat hangers, if it didn't fall then, doubt it would fall now. Always better to play it on the safe side. Is the attic completely open or do you have any roof supports where the peak/ridge is?
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Old 06-27-2012, 10:42 PM   #12
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The home is on a concrete slab correct? And indeed those are/were bearing walls you for sure want to upgrade to 2x4 studs if not 2x6. And just as you said you will need to build a temp wall, and a lot of cases you would have to build 2 temp walls. One wall on each side of the joists, but in your case, with the previous diyers tying a 2x6 in the ceiling with coat hangers, if it didn't fall then, doubt it would fall now. Always better to play it on the safe side. Is the attic completely open or do you have any roof supports where the peak/ridge is?
House was built in 1921, sits on wood blocks early pier and beam? lol. In the attic about 2-3 ft from the ridge it has cross 2x4"s that connect each side of the rafters with 2x4's at an angle from the rafter to the top plate of the bearing wall.
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Old 06-27-2012, 10:51 PM   #13
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http://www.diychatroom.com/attachmen...s-100_1308.jpg does it look like that moneypit ?
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Old 06-27-2012, 10:59 PM   #14
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Bingo, just not as many as in that attic but yes just the same. What you thinking?
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Old 06-27-2012, 11:22 PM   #15
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I'm thinking.. How long have you owned this home? Are you aware of any other structural discrepancies ? As you describe it as a post and beam type home, I would just be making for Certain that shes solid starting from the ground up. But as far as your interior walls did you have any other questions or concerns? Seems like from your original post ya pretty much had the right approach.

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