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nikeman 10-04-2013 09:59 PM

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I just want to start a new thread since I was indecisive on the actual size and everything.

I have decided on 10x10 (gonna be a few inches smaller when done). I have 6 4x4s set in concrete now. 3 right against my shed and 3 about 10 feet out. I notched them and put a 2x8 across them with a screw holding them for now. Everything is square and level so I think I'm ready for framing. I'm wondering if I need any support down the middle. Also, should I put a 4x4 in the middle on each side? One side will have a ramp and its about 5" above ground at deck and only about 1" from the ground at the far corner. The other side is 2.5' above ground at the deck and and maybe 2' at that far corner.

Basically, do I need middle support for 9'7" span of 2x8s 16" on center? And should I add 2 additional 4xs to support the middle of the outside joists making 8 total 4x4? I will be using joist hangers when I frame also.

cortell 10-04-2013 10:34 PM

No; you don't need a beam in the middle. 2x8 16"OC exceeds minimum code for your 10' span, even using the updated and more demanding 2013 AWC tables. That said, if you want a stiffer deck, go with 2x10s or reduce the spacing to 12"OC. The former will be more effective.

What makes you think you need additional support on the outside joists? It's a deck, not a building, right?

joecaption 10-05-2013 07:12 AM

Never should have notched 4 X 4's!

nikeman 10-05-2013 08:12 AM

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The outside joists will be outside of the 4x4 posts so there will be no joist hanger. Or should I just not put a joist outside at all? I have a 2x8 on both sides simply to help me make everything square and pinpoint where those outside posts should be placed.

Joe, they are notched out so that the entire 2x8 is touching the 4x4 and I have the 2" or so for a through bolt to keep it attached. I copied how my house deck was built and its to code.

On a side note, those posts go in the ground deeper than they stick out and they are on so hard clay like dirt so them things aren't going anywhere. I went a little crazy with that part.

nikeman 10-05-2013 08:26 AM

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Also the ramp will be attached to the one side so when I'm riding the mower up it seems like all the weight will be on the one joist. Should I just double that first joist? I'll take a picture of what I have so far in a few minutes.

nikeman 10-05-2013 08:44 AM

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Here ya go. Those side joists are just there to help me square everything. They were the right length. They are only attached at the 2 ends with screws. Should I leave them off completely?

Attachment 76444

joecaption 10-05-2013 05:25 PM

You got away with things that never should have past on your deck on the house. I would not use that as an example.
(the builder used screws instead of hanger nails in your joist hangers, the post for the railings were notched)
How many post have you seen with rotted out subflooring, rim joist, sheathing under the siding because someone did not build the deck lower then the doors threshold?
There's been hundreds of post on this site and any DIY that show's what happens.

cortell 10-05-2013 08:25 PM

I see what you mean by the side joists. Problem is they're only being held up by nails. All joists must rest on a beam or be held up by a hanger. I would do away with them and install a hidden-fastener joist hanger on the corner posts. Those two joists will be 4" shorter than the rest.

A more concerning issue is that you didn't use double 2x8 flush beams. Your beams are a single 2x8. I don't think that's sufficient. If you're getting it inspected, you'll probably get dinged for that. If no inspection, you still might want to address it . The deck might feel bouncy. Two more posts on each beam, to halve the span, would fx that.

cortell 10-05-2013 08:29 PM

You'll want to install a post to support a side ramp.

nikeman 10-06-2013 07:05 AM

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I removed those side joists and started the floor joists inside the 4x4 corner posts. I cut 9 joists and have 2 up on hangers currently. Do you mean 2 2x8s on the back side away from the deck? I could still do that I guess. I have 2 bolts with washers on both sides on each of the 3 4x4 posts and the 2x8 rim joist. Keep in mind that there will never be more than 1 or 2 people on this deck and its only being built for my lawn mower which weighs 614 pounds. I won't be having parties on the thing. Lol. This deck will never have to hold more than 900-1000 pounds and that would be me on the lawnmower with my dad standing up there for some reason which will never happen so really max weight is 740 lbs at one time. Unless I gain weight. Lol

I'm not down playing the safety aspect but I just am not near as concerned about this deck as I was with the house deck. If it crashes down no one will get hurt but me. I can't get anyone to help me who knows what they are doing which is why I come here for tips. You should hear how my dad was trying to tell me to build it. Lol

cortell 10-06-2013 07:28 AM

I meant both "beams". The one directly in front of the shed and the one across from it. I use quotes because really what you have there are just joists acting as beams. They have half the span of the joists, so at least you have that going for you. They should be 2 2x8. You can't just sister a 2x8 at this point. It needs to bear on the post like the other 2x8. So unless you reconfigure the post/beam attachment, an alternative is to halve the beam span again

That said, with a live load of 10psf, what you have may be sufficient. My recommendations are based on typical deck design and code.

Fix'n it 10-06-2013 09:34 AM

look at it this way. if it fails, you won't have far to go.

nikeman 10-06-2013 10:42 AM

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I have 4 lag bolts going through the 2x8 in front of the shed and into the 2x6 board under the door frame and probably in to what ever is behind that.

Gary in WA 10-06-2013 11:40 AM

1. You cannot use through bolts with joists on side of 4x4's.

2. You can use 4x4, per code if only one header joist on the top bearing (notch) of the post and bolted; OR two (double) header joists on an approved metal post cap.

3. A single 2x8 with 1/2 your post span (2.5') will meet code carrying 5' (1/2 joist span) per code.

Just notch the posts for the joists, moving them all inboard 1-1/2" and bolt them to remainder. or hanger 1/2 of them.


Daniel Holzman 10-06-2013 11:54 AM

The OPS is clearly not intending to design or construct the "deck" in accordance with code. This may be just fine, considering that the structure is really not a "deck" in the traditional sense of an outside structure intended to be used by people to congregate, drink, and in general have a good time. I have no idea if the local code enforcement officials think this is a "deck", or even if it needs a permit.

So discussion about this structure that cite typical code issues (example 4x4 is not a permitted size under the Prescriptive Residential Design Guide for posts) is probably besides the point. Similarly, discussion about the size of joists, beams, methods of attachment of structural elements, deck framing techniques etc. may be irrelevant. It might be helpful if the OPS describes what their basis of design is, if any, what the intended loads are, and how long they want the structure to last.

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