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Old 02-06-2009, 10:57 PM   #16
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You too can buy an AFCI breaker for $1000!


It's not a product. It's a system. He's selling a 'certification' and a revenue stream. EOD Certification sounds impressive, especially because it usually stands for Explosive Ordinance Disposal. BOOM!

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Old 02-07-2009, 10:56 AM   #17
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You too can buy an AFCI breaker for $1000!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Thomas View Post
inserting an AFCI at vatious points in a branch circuit to identify and locate arc faluts.
Does an AFCI only detect downstream arcing?
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Old 02-07-2009, 05:58 PM   #18
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You too can buy an AFCI breaker for $1000!


As far as I know, an AFCI will trip under any of three conditions;

1) A ground fault of more than 30 milliamps.

2) An instantaneous overcurrent that exceeds 75 amps for more than 1/60 of a second.

3) A continuous overcurrent that exceeds the breakers thermal trip curve. Like 30 amps for more than 5 minutes, etc.

There isn't any magic circuitry that can sense an actual electrical arc, but most arcs will cause at least one of the above.

I don't know this for sure, but I'd be willing to bet a sizeble sum that the breaker here is a QOB 120 AFCI. This breaker has a tab on the front side that's designed to be bolted onto the panel bus. Very common in commercial/industrial applications. It would be easy to remove the factory installed screw, and bolt a lug onto the front of the breaker. The other end of this lug is one of the test probes.

I'd bet an even larger sum that this breaker is UL listed for use only in a Square D NQOD panelboard.

This begs the question....Can you legally sell a product using components that are in violation of their UL listing? I suppose you could if you got a listing for your product as a whole. I wonder if our hero has done this?

Just a thought.

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Old 02-09-2009, 12:39 PM   #19
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You too can buy an AFCI breaker for $1000!


Quote:
Originally Posted by micromind View Post
This begs the question....Can you legally sell a product using components that are in violation of their UL listing?
Absolutely. UL listing is 100% voluntary. There's nothing special about the UL, it's a private company. It's not a government organization, and its mark is only enforced by trademark.

Because of this, you can't "violate" a listing. You can violate trademark law if you use the UL mark in a way that isn't approved by UL, but if the mark isn't visible on the outside of his product there really wouldn't be an issue at all.
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Old 02-09-2009, 04:13 PM   #20
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You too can buy an AFCI breaker for $1000!


"Tests that demonstrate the effectiveness of an AFCI in detecting and protecting against arcing are unique, and were developed specifically for UL 1699."

"The loading conditions to demonstrate resistance to unwanted operation in UL 1699 include:

inrush currents, such as tungsten lamps and motor starting;
normal operation arcing, such as switch or thermostat operation, and brush contact on universal motors;
non-sinusoidal waveforms, such as those associated with electronic dimmers and computer power supplies; and
light bulb burnouts."

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