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Old 04-02-2012, 05:51 PM   #1
rkg
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yet another 3 wire range hookup question - grounding receptacle plate/box?


Hi,

First this is my first post - I've been lurking for a while/seemed to be constantly getting directed to this forum when I googled for an answer to issues I was having on this late '70s condo I'm rehabbing, so I thought I'd sign up.

Second, I haven't done any really serious remodeling work since the late '90s so please forgive me if the following question is too inane or an "RTFM" question...

Just when I thought the remodel couldn't get any more "interesting", I pulled the drop-in stove, and found this (well, after I disconnected the stove):



The stove wiring (tinned copper(?)) was connected to this junction box with an armored cable and connected up with the connectors shown - in addition, they had grounded the box by putting one of the wire nuts on a onto the ground/neutral braid and a piece of what, #12 copper wire and bonding off another piece of copper wire to go the ground screw shown,
with the ground wire then going to the stove itself. I've never worked
with aluminum wiring before (outside of the mains coming in), so...

It was my understanding that you didn't have to replace the wiring on old work like this, so I was hoping to be able to salvage the existing supply wiring (instead of pulling new copper wire) as the location of the condo in the building would make doing this difficult. To make the connection I was looking at just connecting the aluminum to a NEMA 10-50 receptacle which I would flush mount and then plug the new stove into (I was also planning on cutting out the cabinet so I could get a standard 30" range into the location and go with a 10-50 plug on that).

My first question was whether or not it was still OK to do the grounding of the box the way the original installer did? Or is there some way to get around needing to do this - non metallic box with cover to prevent access to the receptacle's mounting plate, or..? I'd normally always ground the box if its metallic and the metal frame of the switch/receptacle, so this is confusing to me.

And 2), if this is what has to happen, is the only way to bond/pigtail the neutral line to have somebody come in and crimp the neutral braid using a copalum tool?

Any other good suggestions gratefully accepted as well...

Thanks,

rkg
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Old 04-02-2012, 06:00 PM   #2
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yet another 3 wire range hookup question - grounding receptacle plate/box?


Cheaper to replace that with a copper line than to pay someone to come out and do a copalum splice ....

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Old 04-02-2012, 06:40 PM   #3
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yet another 3 wire range hookup question - grounding receptacle plate/box?


Just remove the metal box, and put in a receptacle.
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Old 04-02-2012, 06:52 PM   #4
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yet another 3 wire range hookup question - grounding receptacle plate/box?


Quote:
My first question was whether or not it was still OK to do the grounding of the box the way the original installer did?
Here's what I would do, and I'll try to explain why.

I would either run a new 8-3 (with ground) romex to replace the 3 wire type SE cable or I would install a SURFACE MOUNT 3 WIRE RANGE RECEPT. The reason I would do this is because you don't have a separate ground and neutral. If you reconnect the neutral back to the box, it is possible there might be a load on that metal box. If you don't, you may have voltage on that metal box.

If you install a 3 wire range recept, the cover is plastic and due to where the neutral terminal is located it would be hard to touch metal. Make sure to dip those wires in no-ox before screwing down the terminals.
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Old 04-02-2012, 08:07 PM   #5
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yet another 3 wire range hookup question - grounding receptacle plate/box?


best option(if access allows) replace with 8/3 copper wire and install Recepticle.
if you install a new 4-prong recept, you'll need to replace the plug for the range as well.

2nd best option, install a three-prong recepticle as k_buz mentions.
however with this setup the range is not "truly" grounded. Neutral and ground should be separate.

not likely, but you may be lucky enough to pull new wire thru using the old.
in either case some sort of disconnect should be installed(such as a plug&recept)
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Old 04-02-2012, 08:59 PM   #6
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yet another 3 wire range hookup question - grounding receptacle plate/box?


Why not put some noalox on the wires and add a nema 10-50r receptacle. Would work if there is no way to get new wire to the panel.
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Old 04-02-2012, 09:00 PM   #7
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yet another 3 wire range hookup question - grounding receptacle plate/box?


Another option would be to run 6-3 from the main panel.
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Old 04-03-2012, 01:02 AM   #8
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yet another 3 wire range hookup question - grounding receptacle plate/box?


Hey guys,

Thanks for all the good suggestions/observations! If the structure was all mine I'd probably just pull new copper (even with the tortured path is will have to take), but this is the first condo I've owned, and with all the common elements I'd have to go through, etc I didn't want to do that unless I absolutely had to...

I can see why some people use those surface mount receptacles now - I'll get one of these and the antioxidant from the Orange Borg and go with that.

Thanks again,

Best,

rkg
(Richard George)

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