Go Back   DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum > Home Improvement > Electrical

CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY...IT'S FREE!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 12-17-2007, 04:49 PM   #1
Newbie
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 1
Rewards Points: 10
Default

yes, another sub-panel question!!!


Hello all! what a great informative forum you have here!

This is all the background info on my situation:

I am running service to my pole building 100 Feet from my house.
I had planned on 100 amp service but after reading this forum,
I realize it may be overkill.
I think I will start with a 60 amp breaker in the main feeding the 100 amp box I have in the pole building. I have a 24 inch deep trench running from house to PB. I've got the trench dug but this being Minnesota, I got sneak attacked by Winter. I will have to wait until spring to get the inspector out to have a look and fill the trench in. I have pounded two different 5/8 grounding rods into the ground over 6 feet apart
I will be using sched. 80 from the buildings down to 24 inches below grade. using birect burial wire

1st question:
I have #1-1-1 aluminum in the trench rated for direct burial, what size ground? and I should'nt have a problem using this size wire with a 60 amp breaker feeding a 100 amp breaker, correct?

2nd
is it against the rules to do the work inside the building Ie. the wiring up to the box, so when I do get the power up in the spring it is all connected (as opposed to getting power out to the building then doing the basic wiring)

3rd
I am planing on having cable, data telephone and a natural gas line in the same trench with about 6 inches of dirt between the electrical wire and the rest (any problem with that?)

4th
after looking at all the subpanel questions, it might be nice to have all that info gathered in one place somehow ( I dont know how, It is just an observation)

Thanks for your time
Tom

If anyone has any advice I am missing, I am all ears (or since I am online, all eyes)

tomia is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2007, 05:15 PM   #2
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,631
Rewards Points: 1,082
Default

yes, another sub-panel question!!!


If you wait till spring you'll likely have to redig the trench. I'd go ahead and run the cables now, get it inspected (if required) and fill it in.

You can generally do all your rough in wiring in the PB before the power is out there. Talk to your inspector about how far you can go with it as he may well want to do a rough in inspection and you don't want to have to undo work.

Don't know what ground wire size or about putting other utilities in the same trench. Most inspectors are very helpful and will always give you the answer that will satisfy the inspector.

jogr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2007, 07:38 PM   #3
Union Electrician
 
goose134's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Chicago, USA
Posts: 615
Rewards Points: 500
Default

yes, another sub-panel question!!!


If you are running sched. 80 PVC, you don't need to run direct burial cable. You can run wire with a moisture rating. Most THHN is rated for THHW as well. Take a look before you commit. The insulation jacket will have the insulation type printed on it. Anything that ends in W is rated for moisture.

The phone will have to be run separately, but it sounds like you thought of that. Your ground size will be #10. You may want to upsize if you are going over 100 feet though. Good luck
goose134 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2007, 07:43 PM   #4
UAW SKILLED TRADES
 
Stubbie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Kansas
Posts: 5,040
Rewards Points: 2,050
Default

yes, another sub-panel question!!!


Quote:
1st question:
I have #1-1-1 aluminum in the trench rated for direct burial, what size ground? and I should'nt have a problem using this size wire with a 60 amp breaker feeding a 100 amp breaker, correct?
There is no problem with the 100 amp breaker being after the 60 amps however you may have a problem. That is that #1 may be too large for the lugs of a 60 amp breaker. See attachment below...not all breakers are the same but you should check yours for the wire sizes it will accept. It will say on the breaker spec label located on the breaker itself

As for the ground size a 10 copper or 8 aluminum equipment ground for 60 amp circuit breaker anything above 60 up to 100 amps needs 8 copper or 6 aluminum....see this table for reference.....you have no voltage drop concerns at 100 feet.
http://www.jhlarson.com/ind_tables/g...ble_250122.htm

Quote:
2nd
is it against the rules to do the work inside the building Ie. the wiring up to the box, so when I do get the power up in the spring it is all connected (as opposed to getting power out to the building then doing the basic wiring)
You should be able to do this no problem

Quote:
3rd
I am planing on having cable, data telephone and a natural gas line in the same trench with about 6 inches of dirt between the electrical wire and the rest (any problem with that?)
Nope but you will need to get the local code for the separation distances. Usually they want gas installed last if your going to separate vertically and minimum 6 inch separation either vertical or horizontal. Water is about the only thing you cannot combine in the same trench. But you would want it a heck of a lot deeper than 2 feet anyway.

Click image to enlarge
Attached Thumbnails
yes, another sub-panel question!!!-wire-size-breaker.jpg  

Last edited by Stubbie; 12-17-2007 at 08:20 PM.
Stubbie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2007, 08:03 PM   #5
Licensed Pro
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: SC
Posts: 1,543
Rewards Points: 1,000
Default

yes, another sub-panel question!!!


If you think you may go larger than 60A, and the #1 feeders will allow that, use at least a #6AL ground with the three #1 conductors.
HouseHelper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2007, 08:25 PM   #6
UAW SKILLED TRADES
 
Stubbie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Kansas
Posts: 5,040
Rewards Points: 2,050
Default

yes, another sub-panel question!!!


House helper brings up a very good point you most likely want a 6 al or 8 copper ground so you will have the right size ground when you install a 100 amp breaker someday. If this was a conduit run you likely could pull in another ground but this is direct bury so by all means 6 al or 8 copper.
Stubbie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2007, 05:18 PM   #7
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,294
Rewards Points: 1,000
Default

yes, another sub-panel question!!!


Quote:
I will be using sched. 80 from the buildings down to 24 inches below grade. using birect burial wire

ACKKK!!!


It's only a few extra bucks, spring for the 100' of conduit.


Somebody someday will thank you.

220/221 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Glass Fuse Panel box question? pouncerw Electrical 4 10-05-2009 09:01 PM
breaker panel question chadvavra Electrical 11 08-10-2007 09:20 AM
Main panel design question amakarevic Electrical 13 06-04-2007 04:35 AM
Splice in Neutral to Panel - OK or Not? allpraisebob Electrical 4 08-12-2006 05:54 AM
3 phase panel question curse21 Electrical 2 08-18-2004 10:17 PM




Top of Page | View New Posts

Copyright © 2003-2014 Escalate Media. All Rights Reserved.