Go Back   DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum > Home Improvement > Electrical

CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY...IT'S FREE!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 10-27-2008, 02:53 PM   #16
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,294
Rewards Points: 1,000
Default

Won't fit.


Plastic boxes don't NEED a tri tap .

You can use drywall screws if you need longer screws (the point on the DWS makes finding the hole/starting the screw a lot easier.

IMO, the main problem with metal boxes is that they are conductive. They also take longer to install and generally have less volume.

220/221 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2008, 06:57 PM   #17
DIY'er
 
jamiedolan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Neenah, Wisconsin, USA
Posts: 2,032
Rewards Points: 1,000
Blog Entries: 2
Default

Won't fit.


Quote:
Originally Posted by williswires View Post
That's a lot of wires. Assuming you have all 14 AWG wires in there, your required box volume is a minimum box having at least 38 cu. in. Most of the Carlon 2-gangs have 32 or 35, but maybe yours is bigger.

Now, for Jamie's concern.
Jamie should have a box volume of at least 44 cu. in.

If a gangable box type like this is used, a 2-1/2" deep won't cut it at approx 37.5 cu in. A 2-3/4" deep is close, at approx 42 cu in. The next size is usually 3-1/2" deep, offering approx 54 cu in, but the screws for the cable clamps usually hit the opposite wall.

If this style is used, I would use the 2-3/4".



Now, if this style is used, a 2-1/8" deep box will give 44.3 cu. in., but might be a little tight putting a dimmer or deep switch in there.



willis
Yes, that metal box shown above with the detachable side is just what I have, I had a 2 gang, and I added another box to it to make it a 3 gang.

It is only about 2.5" deep at the most.

I bought a new 3 gang plastic box that is deeper, it is 52 cu in box. I was working on a different box today, it is was a 46 cu in plastic box. It has five 14-2 and one 14-3 in the box.

Actually I was mistaken with the number of wires going into the box we are discussing here. It actually has:

4 - 14-3
2- 14-2

6 pieces of romex going in, but 4 of them are 14-3. For a total of 16 wires that either terminate or junction in that box. Plus the ground wires.

I will be replacing the metal box tommrow with the new 52 cu in plastic box and re feeding all 6 cables to it.

These 3 / 4 way switches sure do get to be a little bit of work don't they...

And next up, fishing through an insulated wall to install a new light fixture outside, and then I am going to install AC smoke detectors, while I have a number of celings ripped open.

Maybe someday I will be able to spend some times rebuilding my kitchen that I gutted 2 months ago.

Jamie
jamiedolan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2008, 06:59 PM   #18
DIY'er
 
jamiedolan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Neenah, Wisconsin, USA
Posts: 2,032
Rewards Points: 1,000
Blog Entries: 2
Default

Won't fit.


I have been using some of the red wide range nuts, they are kind of big. I bought a bag of the yellow wide range, they are much smaller and should help space wise.

Jamie
jamiedolan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2008, 07:58 PM   #19
Electrician
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Connecticut, Litchfield
Posts: 2,015
Rewards Points: 1,000
Default

Won't fit.


Quote:
Originally Posted by InPhase277 View Post
Where's the UL listing on the sheath that says it is suitable for use as a means to secure other cables?
Show me a code where the cable support has to be listed?
Next your going to want screws listed for supporting a panel to plywood.
chris75 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2008, 09:12 PM   #20
My License Ain't 4 Sale..
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Atlanta, Ga/Hamilton, Al
Posts: 1,813
Rewards Points: 1,000
Default

Won't fit.


Quote:
Originally Posted by chris75 View Post
Show me a code where the cable support has to be listed?
Next your going to want screws listed for supporting a panel to plywood.
That wasn't my point. Personally, I wouldn't have done it that way, but overall, the cables are secure. But, where I'm from, the inspector would not pass it because the cable sheath is not a sound mechanical support for the cables.
InPhase277 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2008, 10:01 PM   #21
Electrician
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Connecticut, Litchfield
Posts: 2,015
Rewards Points: 1,000
Default

Won't fit.


Quote:
Originally Posted by InPhase277 View Post
That wasn't my point. Personally, I wouldn't have done it that way, but overall, the cables are secure. But, where I'm from, the inspector would not pass it because the cable sheath is not a sound mechanical support for the cables.
He really doesn't have a choice does he? You either let him beat you up, or you set him straight from the get go. Wait till it starts costing you money, then you will not tolerate this nonsense.
chris75 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2008, 10:03 PM   #22
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,294
Rewards Points: 1,000
Default

Won't fit.


Quote:
the inspector would not pass it because the cable sheath is not a sound mechanical support for the cables.
That would be his personal opinion. Mine would differ and I'd be open for a head to head field test agaist those stacker thingys.
220/221 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2008, 10:08 PM   #23
Electrician
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Connecticut, Litchfield
Posts: 2,015
Rewards Points: 1,000
Default

Won't fit.


Quote:
Originally Posted by 220/221 View Post
That would be his personal opinion. Mine would differ and I'd be open for a head to head field test agaist those stacker thingys.
I personally love the stak-its, but your method is fine as well.
chris75 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2008, 10:09 PM   #24
Licensed Electrical Cont.
 
Speedy Petey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: NY State
Posts: 6,878
Rewards Points: 2,110
Default

Won't fit.


Quote:
Originally Posted by 220/221 View Post
That would be his personal opinion. Mine would differ and I'd be open for a head to head field test agaist those stacker thingys.
While I agree with you and Chris on the listing part, I'd take that bet for my cable stackers against your romex sheathing ANY day!
__________________
Sometimes I feel like if I answer any more questions it is like someone trying to climb over a fence to jump off a bridge and me giving them a boost.
Answers based on the 2008 & 2011 NEC.
Speedy Petey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2008, 10:23 PM   #25
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,294
Rewards Points: 1,000
Default

Won't fit.


Oh, you're on!

It's a long drive for both of us so let's come up with a test, Mythbusters style using the same parameters.

I've never used stackers. How do the wires clip in?? Can you grab a cable and pull it out of the wall?

Cable sheath pros:

keeps the cable further from the drywall screws

Keeps sheathing out of the land fill (Yay green!)

Infinitely less material cost. (Yay green!)


Stacker pros: ??
220/221 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2008, 10:32 PM   #26
Licensed Electrical Cont.
 
Speedy Petey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: NY State
Posts: 6,878
Rewards Points: 2,110
Default

Won't fit.


Quote:
Originally Posted by 220/221 View Post
Stacker pros: ??
- SUPER easy installation: One captive nail.
- Infinitely re-usable.
- Not a tight support. Cable can move for adjustment or removal.
- Looks VERY neat when used properly. I am anal about my rough-ins and cable stackers can looks just as nice as my stapling.
- Wide range of cable capacity. Most up to 8 or 10 cables.

Cons:
- Only one real con: Cost. But in the scope of things this is not really a concern to me.
- A minor con is having to stock them

I can VERY easily live with both of these cons.

I use the red GB ones with the snap closure.
__________________
Sometimes I feel like if I answer any more questions it is like someone trying to climb over a fence to jump off a bridge and me giving them a boost.
Answers based on the 2008 & 2011 NEC.

Last edited by Speedy Petey; 10-27-2008 at 10:35 PM. Reason: Add image
Speedy Petey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2008, 10:41 PM   #27
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,294
Rewards Points: 1,000
Default

Won't fit.


- SUPER easy installation: One captive nail.

One or two staples.


- Infinitely re-usable.

Dont you leave them in the wall??


- Not a tight support. Cable can move for adjustment or removal.

Same here



- Looks VERY neat when used properly. I am anal about my rough-ins and cable stackers can looks just as nice as my stapling.


Beauty is relative. Mine look the same when the job is done. Only the cockroaches see your stackers


- Wide range of cable capacity. Most up to 8 or 10 cables.

Unlimited range

I gotta go play softball.

To be continued..........................
220/221 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2008, 10:42 PM   #28
Electrician
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Connecticut, Litchfield
Posts: 2,015
Rewards Points: 1,000
Default

Won't fit.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Speedy Petey View Post
- I am anal about my rough-ins and cable stackers can looks just as nice as my stapling.

I think I would work quite well with you day to day.
chris75 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2008, 10:44 PM   #29
Electrician
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Connecticut, Litchfield
Posts: 2,015
Rewards Points: 1,000
Default

Won't fit.


no need to argue the NM strap vs stacker, either or is fine. IMO though the NM strap could have some derating issues to contend with depending on the situation.
chris75 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2008, 10:45 PM   #30
Licensed Electrical Cont.
 
Speedy Petey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: NY State
Posts: 6,878
Rewards Points: 2,110
Default

Won't fit.


Quote:
Originally Posted by chris75 View Post
I think I would work quite well with you day to day.
I get that impression as well.

__________________
Sometimes I feel like if I answer any more questions it is like someone trying to climb over a fence to jump off a bridge and me giving them a boost.
Answers based on the 2008 & 2011 NEC.
Speedy Petey is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





Top of Page | View New Posts

Copyright © 2003-2014 Escalate Media. All Rights Reserved.