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Old 08-19-2011, 03:53 PM   #1
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Wiring Waterless Hot Water Tank


I have a question maybe someone can help me with. I'm installing a 54 amp Waterless Whole House Hot Water tank in my doublewide. I found a 60 amp plug and receptacle but they are 4 wire grounding and the tank is 3 wire grounding. Can I use the 4 wire grounding but not connect the red wire and have it function properly???

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Old 08-19-2011, 04:31 PM   #2
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I have no clue what 4 wire grounding and 3 wire grounding is. Why are you putting a plug on it, you probably have to hardwire it.

What make and model of tank are you getting, the only one I have wire required 4 seperate 240V circuits in it.

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Old 08-19-2011, 04:59 PM   #3
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Wiring Waterless Hot Water Tank


I want to know what a "Waterless Whole House Hot Water tank" is.
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Old 08-19-2011, 05:03 PM   #4
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Wiring Waterless Hot Water Tank


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I want to know what a "Waterless Whole House Hot Water tank" is.
Waterless hot water sounds like a neat trick.
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Old 08-19-2011, 05:08 PM   #5
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Wiring Waterless Hot Water Tank


Oh sorry. 4 wire grounding meaning, Black, Red, White and Ground and 3 wire grounding meaning, Black, White and Ground. The plug and outlet both are made for 4 wires and the tank is only 3 so i'm wondering if i can wire just the black, white and ground and it function properly leaving the red disconnected on both ends. For information, the wiring from the electrical box doesn't have a red either, just a black white and ground. I believe the make is Titan perhaps. Have to check. And a tankless hot water tank is a box with your hookups for hot and cold water. It doesn't have a tank to hold the water just water flows through the coils that heat the water, doesn't have a tank which needs to be heated, so you don't run out of hot water. Power goes out for a few hours, not gonna run out of hot water when it kicks back on.
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Old 08-19-2011, 05:16 PM   #6
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Okay makes more sense now, just for FYI when counting wires you don't count the bare ground so a cable with red, black, white, and ground is called a 3 wire.

Did the unit come with a cord attachment or are you adding this yourself?
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Old 08-19-2011, 05:17 PM   #7
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How large is the electrical service and how many electric appliances do you have?
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Old 08-19-2011, 06:50 PM   #8
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I've got a few questions....why are you even considering a tankless waterheater in a residence? They do NOT save energy, and thusly do not save any money. They are energy hogs in residential situations. The only time the need to be considered is if you truly need an endless hot water supply and you don't care what the cost is.
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Old 08-19-2011, 06:58 PM   #9
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What size is the electrical service of the dwelling?
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Old 08-20-2011, 09:07 AM   #10
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Wiring Waterless Hot Water Tank


How many houses are on your transformer as they will be pizzed when their lights dim everytime you turn on the hot water. You may want to contact your utility before installing one of these units.
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Old 08-20-2011, 10:03 AM   #11
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The thing about the tankless units is that they're rated at the increase in temp, not output temp. Assuming you're in the US, if you live in the south and the water is always 60', then you'll probably be fine. If you're up north, when temps drop in the winter, you won't get "hot" water from them. Also, the higher the flow rate, the less it heats.
I have the cheapo Titan off of ebay. It barely keeps up in the summer and definitely won't work for more than a single faucet in winter.
These units are generally designed to be hard wired into a junction box on 220v. Two hots(black & red) on a double pole 60 amp breaker and a ground. Wire gauge is either 6 or 8 depending on length and whether or not its ran in conduit. They're really best suited for homes with 200 amp service.
Do you have natural gas? Its probably the better choice if feasible.
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Old 08-20-2011, 10:12 AM   #12
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The thing about the tankless units is that they're rated at the increase in temp, not output temp. Assuming you're in the US, if you live in the south and the water is always 60', then you'll probably be fine. If you're up north, when temps drop in the winter, you won't get "hot" water from them. Also, the higher the flow rate, the less it heats.
I have the cheapo Titan off of ebay. It barely keeps up in the summer and definitely won't work for more than a single faucet in winter.
These units are generally designed to be hard wired into a junction box on 220v. Two hots(black & red) on a double pole 60 amp breaker and a ground. Wire gauge is either 6 or 8 depending on length and whether or not its ran in conduit. They're really best suited for homes with 200 amp service.
Do you have natural gas? Its probably the better choice if feasible.
#8 is never good for 54 amps in interior wiring, except for derating.
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Old 08-20-2011, 10:34 AM   #13
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#8 is never good for 54 amps in interior wiring, except for derating.
NEC calls THHN 55 amps.
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Old 08-20-2011, 10:42 AM   #14
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NEC calls THHN 55 amps.
Most devices and breakers have 75 degree terminals.

110.14(C) Temperature Limitations. The temperature rating associated
with the ampacity of a conductor shall be selected and coordinated so as not to exceed the lowest temperature rating of any connected termination, conductor, or device.
Conductors with temperature ratings higher than specified
for terminations shall be permitted to be used for ampacity
adjustment, correction, or both
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Old 08-20-2011, 01:41 PM   #15
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I have no clue what 4 wire grounding and 3 wire grounding is. Why are you putting a plug on it, you probably have to hardwire it.

What make and model of tank are you getting, the only one I have wire required 4 seperate 240V circuits in it.
your subtitle says you are an electrician.

why are you recommending that someone install a permanent device with no disconnect?

although local codes and installations may vary (like it may actually be installed in a garage next to the service panel), **MOST** installations do require a disconnect next to the appliance. And in anycase, going backwards and REMOVING a disconnect is almost never a reasonable thing to do.

An appropriate plug is perfectly fine, as is a pull out disconnect.

to the OP, call an electrician and stick around and ask brief questions when he wires it up for you.

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