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Old 08-11-2008, 04:31 PM   #16
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Wiring v/s amperage


Quote:
Originally Posted by fw2007 View Post
Yoyizit;
I don't think he has any intention of using the #10 wire at 40A. What I understand is that he is asking whether or not he could 'get away' with keeping the 30A and #10 for the new cooktop.

If I were doing the install, I would go by mfr specs and change the wiring/breaker as required.
I suppose it is possible to squeak through most days with an under-powered feed, but eventually there will come a time when the breaker will keep tripping, and he will decide that it was a mistake to keep the old wiring/breaker.

Whether or not it would pass inspection as-is, is another story.

Exacty as yoyizit said, I do not intern to just drop in a 40 amp breaker, I intend to use the installation as is. So what are my risks? I assume I will see breaker trippping only when I use the cooktop at max, right?
Mind you if it gets annoying I will definitely chaneg wiring to 8-3/40 amps breaker.
So what's the answer?

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Old 08-11-2008, 04:32 PM   #17
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Wiring v/s amperage


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Originally Posted by Speedy Petey View Post
Simply adding up the elements is not the answer.

Post the actual UNIT wattage (or amperage) and we can go from there.

Let me find out the numbers , I will post it.
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Old 08-11-2008, 04:37 PM   #18
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Wiring v/s amperage


Quote:
Originally Posted by Speedy Petey View Post
Simply adding up the elements is not the answer.

Post the actual UNIT wattage (or amperage) and we can go from there.

Here it is:-




6" Electric Element - 1200W
1



6" Induction Cooking Zone - 1200W / 1500W
1



6" to 9" Dual Expandable Element - 1600W / 3000W
1



10" Induction Cooking Zone - 2400W / 3200W
1



Yes






Minimum Circuit Required
40



Connected Load (kW Rating) @ 240 / 208 Volts
8.1 / 7.1



Electrical Requirements
Electrical - Single phase 4-wire cable, 120 / 240 Volts or 120 / 208 Volts, 60 Hz, fused on both sides of line with ground.
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Old 08-12-2008, 09:17 AM   #19
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Wiring v/s amperage


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Originally Posted by fw2007 View Post
Try this calculator. I like it, because it takes into consideration not only current and voltage, but length of the run.

http://www.csgnetwork.com/wiresizecalc.html


FW

WOW!!that gives me #12, this must be wrong!!
Copper, 30 feet , 240V, 40 amps.
What do I do now? Im all confused.
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Old 08-12-2008, 11:13 AM   #20
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Wiring v/s amperage


Ok, I could be totally wrong, so lets have a pro comment on this, since I am not a pro...
I think part of the confusion comes from what "40 amps of 220" actually is. The calculator would imply that 40 amps of 220 is 20 amps on phase A and 20 amps on phase B, so 40 amps is actually two 20 amp breakers tied together, 20 amps requires 12 guage wire... So the question is: Is 40 amps of 220 really two 40 amp breakers tied together or two 20 amp breakers tied together?

I am leaning more towards the first option (two 40 amps) after doing some math (I=V/R and Power=I*V) on a simple circuit that can be represented as a 110 or 220...

Last edited by daxinarian; 08-12-2008 at 11:35 AM. Reason: Thinking more about it
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Old 08-12-2008, 11:56 AM   #21
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Wiring v/s amperage


A 40 amp two pole breaker is just that, 40 amps. It is not 2 20's. In a residental setting, for a cooktop, that requires a #8 wire.
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Old 08-12-2008, 12:02 PM   #22
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Wiring v/s amperage


So here is my simple diagram. It consists of two 2200 watt loads, one on each circuit. Each circuit is powered by different 110 phases with a common neutral. For 110V close the switch (so neutral is connected) each circuit should have 20 amps flowing (2200 watt / 110 V = 20 amps). Open the switch so now you have a 220 circuit with two 2200 watt loads... 2*2200 W / 220V = 20 amps

in either case you have two 20 amp breakers, they just need to be tied together for the 220V situation.

From this I would say there is something wrong with the calculator or we aren't using it correctly.


(note: there is actually never any current flowing on the neutral line in either case, but the switch makes it easier to discuss)
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File Type: bmp 110 vs 220.bmp (13.4 KB, 20 views)
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Old 08-12-2008, 12:15 PM   #23
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Wiring v/s amperage


My current breaker is 30 amps and I assume my wire is #10.
The recommended rating for the new cooktop is 40 amps per the catalogue, but when I called the maufacturer support line , they said I am OK with 30 amps.

Help me decide!![/QUOTE]

The fact that the paper work states it needs a 40 amp breaker, trumps any calculations that you use.
I'm not sure about Canada, but the nec requires us to follow the instructions with the device we are installing!
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Old 08-12-2008, 12:18 PM   #24
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Wiring v/s amperage


I would say that the calculator does not take into account the rules of the nec!
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Old 08-12-2008, 01:24 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbfan View Post
My current breaker is 30 amps and I assume my wire is #10.
The recommended rating for the new cooktop is 40 amps per the catalogue, but when I called the maufacturer support line , they said I am OK with 30 amps.

Help me decide!!
The fact that the paper work states it needs a 40 amp breaker, trumps any calculations that you use.
I'm not sure about Canada, but the nec requires us to follow the instructions with the device we are installing![/quote]

Ok I will follow your advice I will change wiring to #8 and 40 amps breaker, but my questione remains, just for curiosity and self knowledge, what will happen if I leave my #10 wiring and 30 amps breaker?
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Old 08-12-2008, 03:09 PM   #26
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Wiring v/s amperage


Ok I will follow your advice I will change wiring to #8 and 40 amps breaker, but my questione remains, just for curiosity and self knowledge, what will happen if I leave my #10 wiring and 30 amps breaker?


Maybe nothing, or it may trip every sunday dinner.
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Old 08-12-2008, 04:02 PM   #27
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Wiring v/s amperage


Quote:
Help me decide!!
Hook it up and turn it on.

If the breaker trips (it won't), run a new circuit. You have only wasted a half hour on the install/uninstall.
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Old 08-12-2008, 04:54 PM   #28
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Wiring v/s amperage


Canada may allow a diversity calculation much like we use Art.220 load tables to perform. It is possible tech support is using load diversity to permit the 30 amp breaker. In the USA a single cooktop is calculated using the nameplate rating, so 40 amps #8 awg copper would prevail in this situation.
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Old 08-12-2008, 11:19 PM   #29
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Wiring v/s amperage


Quote:
Originally Posted by Droptine View Post
Here's my dilemma, I am replacing my good old 15 year old electric cooktop with a new Hybrid electric/induction cooktop. My current breaker is 30 amps and I assume my wire is #10.
The recommended rating for the new cooktop is 40 amps per the catalogue, but when I called the maufacturer support line , they said I am OK with 30 amps.
Total wattage if I add all 4 elements is 8900 watts (that is if all is used at the same time at max power I assume) divide by 240v that gives me 37 amps, am I right so far?
Questions is what will/can happen if I leave my circuit as is, that is 30 amps breaker and #10 wiring. Any risk of fire? Or will the breaker simply pop when all elements are at full power.
As far as I know , it is quite improbable that my wife willbe using them all 4 at full blast.

Changing the wiring to # 8 is an option but quite a painful task, so what to do???

Help me decide!!
Every Christmas your wife will be blowing the breaker half way through cooking dinner.
Bite the bullet and do the job correctly and get on with your life.
Keeping the 30 amp breaker and #10 wire will not cause the insulation to break down or start a fire. The breaker will just keep on tripping as more load is applied.
You will have one unhappy woman on your hands and you know, never offend the cook! LOL!
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Old 08-13-2008, 11:29 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by Wildie View Post
Every Christmas your wife will be blowing the breaker half way through cooking dinner.
Bite the bullet and do the job correctly and get on with your life.
Keeping the 30 amp breaker and #10 wire will not cause the insulation to break down or start a fire. The breaker will just keep on tripping as more load is applied.
You will have one unhappy woman on your hands and you know, never offend the cook! LOL!
Oh yeah, a cook she is, she owns a restaurant, but at home she hardly cooks, well unless we have people over. And she has been warned, at first she wanted a full induction cook top, which in some cases are rated 50AMPS!!!
But my buddy who is good at running cables will do it for me, since I am not very good at running wires into walls.

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