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Old 05-30-2011, 01:47 PM   #31
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Wiring for swimming pool


Quote:
Originally Posted by NJMarine
Since the OP is from NJ, here is a sample guidline from a NJ Town.
It does have about the equipotential bonding, which also is required.
If you already have a gfi outlet that is 10-20 feet away from pool edge than that can be the convience outlet.

Sample guidelines for electrical requirements for Swimming Pools
01. No direct burial cable permitted underground. Conduit system is required. 680.21
02. Minimum attachment cord size # 12 AWG. 680-21
03. Minimum ground wire size # 12 AWG. 680.21
04. 20 Ampere Locking type outlet required for filter motor for above ground pools located between 5’ and 10’ from
pool wall. This outlet shall be Ground Fault Protected and shall employ a “In-Use” cover. This circuit shall be
dedicated to the Filter Motor. 680.22
05. Convenience outlet shall be located between 10’ and 20’ from pool wall, shall be Ground Fault Protected and
shall be connected to a routine circuit in the dwelling. This outlet may be protected with a “in- use”
weatherproof cover. 680.22
06. All metal parts within 5’ of the pool shall be bonded together with #8 solid wire and shall be bonded to filter
motor. 680.26
07. Filter motor may be “hard wired” but disconnecting means is required.
08. Burial depth is routinely 18” for PVC and 6” for Rigid metal conduit. 680.10
09. Any approved wiring method within the dwelling is approved within the dwelling unless a pool light is involved.
If a pool light is installed, a conduit system is required to the service panel board and a green insulated ground
is required to be installed. 680.21
10. All wiring installed in a conduit system must either be Ground Fault or not. Do not intermix these two types of wiring protection
11. A # 8 Solid Green wire is required to be installed between the pool chassis and a lug provided on the filter
motor. A proper lug is required on the pool chassis. 680.26
12. A time clock must be installed so the pump can be set to run at off hours as per the Model Energy Code
This is almost the exact guidelines I'm following for Beachwood, NJ. I didn't see the option of 6" trench for rigid metal conduit though, so I'll be doing the 18" for shed 40 PVC.

Re: ground rod for bonding, can I bury it close to my house (about 25' away from pool) while I run the #8 solid wire via the trench (outside the PVC)? I don't think I have to run it on separate conduit, right?

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Old 05-30-2011, 02:30 PM   #32
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I believe you have been told a couple of times you do not need a ground rod nor will it do anything for your install. Why do you keep asking about a ground rod?
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Old 05-30-2011, 04:17 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jomay View Post
Re: ground rod for bonding, can I bury it close to my house (about 25' away from pool) while I run the #8 solid wire via the trench (outside the PVC)? I don't think I have to run it on separate conduit, right?
I am curious to see what other answers you get on this.
You are obviously looking for someone to tell you you need one. WHY I have NO idea.
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Old 05-31-2011, 12:35 AM   #34
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You need a ground rod because the others have told you not to install one. Damn Them!!
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Old 05-31-2011, 05:27 AM   #35
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I am in Middletown/Red Bank and the surrounding towns use similar guidlines.
I do not know why you insist on aground rod.
I am not far from you so you want more information or guidance, you can contact me.
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Old 05-31-2011, 11:18 PM   #36
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Wiring for swimming pool


Quote:
Originally Posted by NJMarine
I am in Middletown/Red Bank and the surrounding towns use similar guidlines.
I do not know why you insist on aground rod.
I am not far from you so you want more information or guidance, you can contact me.
I'm a bit confused.. as you can all tell. i dont insist having ground rod, but i just assumed that when i need to bond the pool and the filter, i will need to hook them up to a ground rod... if my assumption is incorrect can you provide additional info? Whats your number?
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Old 05-31-2011, 11:20 PM   #37
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Wiring for swimming pool


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Port
I believe you have been told a couple of times you do not need a ground rod nor will it do anything for your install. Why do you keep asking about a ground rod?
I'm a bit confused.. as you can all tell. i dont insist having ground rod, but i just assumed that when i need to bond the pool and the filter, i will need to hook them up to a ground rod... did i miss any instructions?
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Old 05-31-2011, 11:27 PM   #38
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I still find the term bonding a bit confusing too.

Let me tell you what I did when I wired my pool that was passed on inspection. I had a length of bare copper wire that started in a wirenut where a pigtail for the GFCI outlet connected to the bare copper wire from the UF cable. This bare copper wire looped around a ground screw that installed into the frame of the pump motor - your pool pump installation manual should tell you how to do this as well. The copper wire continued on to connect to one of the metal posts of the pool frame.

Correct me if I'm wrong, it's not the filter that needs to be bonded, it's the pump...

By the way, when I wired my pump, I actually did a conduit run from my post where I had mounted the GFCI outlet and hard wired the pump to an outdoor switch on the post. I didn't want to be dealing with a loose cord when I was using a lawnmower or weed whacker. Dunno if I'd do that again, but my yard is too small for me to have the possibility of facing such questions with a pool.
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Old 05-31-2011, 11:41 PM   #39
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I still find the term bonding a bit confusing too.

Let me tell you what I did when I wired my pool that was passed on inspection. I had a length of bare copper wire that started in a wirenut where a pigtail for the GFCI outlet connected to the bare copper wire from the UF cable. This bare copper wire looped around a ground screw that installed into the frame of the pump motor - your pool pump installation manual should tell you how to do this as well. The copper wire continued on to connect to one of the metal posts of the pool frame.

Correct me if I'm wrong, it's not the filter that needs to be bonded, it's the pump...

By the way, when I wired my pump, I actually did a conduit run from my post where I had mounted the GFCI outlet and hard wired the pump to an outdoor switch on the post. I didn't want to be dealing with a loose cord when I was using a lawnmower or weed whacker. Dunno if I'd do that again, but my yard is too small for me to have the possibility of facing such questions with a pool.
I thought grounding is different from bonding...

Grounding VS Bonding

My understanding was, the filter is grounded using your bare wire from the panel.... The pool, pump, or any metal within certain distance to the pool must be bonded to a ground such that anything like lightning can safely pass thru it. Did i mis something?
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Old 06-01-2011, 02:30 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jomay View Post
I'm a bit confused.. as you can all tell. i dont insist having ground rod, but i just assumed that when i need to bond the pool and the filter, i will need to hook them up to a ground rod... did i miss any instructions?
Grounding and bonding are completely different things, although they often happen at the same time through the same wires and connections.

Bonding is exactly what the name implies: connecting things together with wires. Bonding ensures that all exposed metal things stay at the same voltage (after all, if they are connected to each other with wires, they must be at the same voltage), and that the voltage is "zero" - the system neutral voltage. The purpose is to ensure that you can't touch something and get shocked by it. The bonding includes a connection to the system neutral (through the system bonding jumper back in the main panel). The purpose of this is to make sure that if a hot wire ever touches something that is bonded, there is a direct short circuit and the circuit breaker blows instantly. Without this bonding connection to the system neutral, a hot wire could touch metal things (like the frame of your pool pump, or the housing of the underwater light) and electrify them, and you would never find out until you learned it the hard way. Bonding is therefore extremely important for safety - it is the primary means that our electrical systems have to prevent shocks.

Grounding is also exactly what the name implies: connecting something to a ground rod (or other grounding electrode). Only the system as a whole is connected to grounding electrodes, not individual pieces of equipment. Why? Well, grounding serves only one fairly limited purpose: stabilizing the system voltage relative to ground. Grounding ensures that the "neutral" conductor and all of the grounded/bonded equipment on the system is at approximately the same voltage as the earth. Grounding electrodes have fairly high resistance - usually on the order of tens or hundreds of ohms. Thus, grounding alone is useless to prevent shocks or trip breakers in case of ground faults. You can connect a hot wire directly to a ground rod and it will only draw a few amps, and never trip the breaker.

That's the difference between grounding and bonding. As you can see, bonding is the part you need to be concerned about when building a pool - you need to make sure that all metal surfaces and equipment are at the same voltage, and that any ground faults will instantly trip the circuit breaker. That's what bonding is about. You already have a grounding electrode (or two) on the system, so adding another one would be useless. Even more to the point, the rebar in the pool concrete is a far better grounding electrode than a ground rod anyway - burying another 8 feet of steel rod would not be helpful.
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Old 06-01-2011, 05:45 AM   #41
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pool water also has to be bonded. This is one company that has a bonding parts. www.WaterBonder.com

Last edited by NJMarine; 06-04-2011 at 07:29 AM.
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Old 06-04-2011, 07:32 AM   #42
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Jomay
Do you see that a ground rod is not needed.
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Old 06-04-2011, 10:03 AM   #43
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Old 06-04-2011, 02:17 PM   #44
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Old 06-04-2011, 04:07 PM   #45
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