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electric-pete 01-17-2006 08:57 PM

Wiring stove outlet in old house
 
I've got old wire -- 2 hot + bare ground -- that went to an old, hard-wired electric stove.

Now I have to put in a receptacle for a replacement stove with a 3-prong plug.

Can I just connect the bare ground wire to the neutral on the receptacle or do I need to replace the entire run from the main box, or ...?

TIA

jbfan 01-17-2006 09:14 PM

Yes. As long as you are not moving the wireing then code allows this. If you move the wireing, by code it must be replace with a 4 wire.

tedn332 01-17-2006 09:38 PM

Since new stove will use 120v for lights/clocks etc it will need a neutral. Bare ground wire may not be used as neutral since it caries current. I believe you will need to run new wire.

mdshunk 01-17-2006 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tedn332
Since new stove will use 120v for lights/clocks etc it will need a neutral. Bare ground wire may not be used as neutral since it caries current. I believe you will need to run new wire.

Ted, while it's certainly a "good idea" to run a new 4 wire, you have your facts sorely confused.

The old 3-wire range setups were not "un-neutraled" they were ungrounded. They do have a neutral, it is just bare. They have no ground.

mrjoeygee1 07-01-2008 08:20 PM

4 pole plugs and 3 wire source
 
The guy at Ace Hardware told me to "put the white on one side, the black on the opposite side and tie one #6 copper wire to the top "green" pin and the other end to the bottom neutral. I just didn't feel right about this, especially when you're dealing with 220. I would be better of either running new 4 wire (B, W, R and G) or getting a three-wire plug and leaving it ungrounded. Is this going to mess up the stove's electronics? Will it be a real live grounding hazard?

Quote:

Originally Posted by mdshunk (Post 7572)
Ted, while it's certainly a "good idea" to run a new 4 wire, you have your facts sorely confused.

The old 3-wire range setups were not "un-neutraled" they were ungrounded. They do have a neutral, it is just bare. They have no ground.


Speedy Petey 07-01-2008 08:48 PM

The guy at Ace was a fool.

It is not actually unsafe, but you ARE allowed to keep old three wire circuits. They were not "ungrounded". They simply used the NEUTRAL as both the neutral and ground wire.
The ONLY bare wire allowed to be used for this was the bare grounded conductor (neutral) of type SE cable. You were NEVER allowed to use the bare ground wire in NM cable for this type of installation.

mrjoeygee1 07-01-2008 09:13 PM

4 pole...
 
So is there an easier fix than just going to Home Depot and hooking it up on 3 pole plug? Is the breaker at the box sufficient safety for this new dual-fuel stove?

Thanks!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Speedy Petey (Post 135258)
The guy at Ace was a fool.

It is not actually unsafe, but you ARE allowed to keep old three wire circuits. They were not "ungrounded". They simply used the NEUTRAL as both the neutral and ground wire.
The ONLY bare wire allowed to be used for this was the bare grounded conductor (neutral) of type SE cable. You were NEVER allowed to use the bare ground wire in NM cable for this type of installation.


micromind 07-01-2008 09:42 PM

Wait a sec here; this bothers me a bit. What, exactly, is a dual-fuel stove? Much more importantly, what voltage does the new stove want?

If you're replacing an electric stove with a gas one, the gas one almost certainly takes 120 volts, not 240. If this is the case, you can certainly use the existing wire, but it'll need to be re-connected in the breaker panel.

If this is the case, write back, there's about 10 guys here that can walk you through it.

Rob

mrjoeygee1 07-01-2008 09:51 PM

Dual fuel
 
Sorry re: the odd "labeling"...here's the set up. The cook top is gas...5-burners...with elec. ignition. The ovens are both conventional and convection and require a 50 amp circuit. http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_1...0070921x00003a

Two different "fuels", gas and elec. I'm assuming that the white would carry the 120 for the electronics and the black would carry the 220 load. The service in the wall came out of the old double oven and was split on the interior into B, W and R. I am not moving the service, I just took the cabinet out and put a plug in the box.

Thanks, guys!

Quote:

Originally Posted by micromind (Post 135272)
Wait a sec here; this bothers me a bit. What, exactly, is a dual-fuel stove? Much more importantly, what voltage does the new stove want?

If you're replacing an electric stove with a gas one, the gas one almost certainly takes 120 volts, not 240. If this is the case, you can certainly use the existing wire, but it'll need to be re-connected in the breaker panel.

If this is the case, write back, there's about 10 guys here that can walk you through it.

Rob


micromind 07-01-2008 09:57 PM

Whew!! Had me worried there for a minute!

Using your original wiring will be just fine. Instead of having a neutral and a ground, you'll have a combination neutral/ground.

Rob

jimmy21 07-02-2008 12:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Speedy Petey (Post 135258)
The guy at Ace was a fool.

It is not actually unsafe, but you ARE allowed to keep old three wire circuits. They were not "ungrounded". They simply used the NEUTRAL as both the neutral and ground wire.
The ONLY bare wire allowed to be used for this was the bare grounded conductor (neutral) of type SE cable. You were NEVER allowed to use the bare ground wire in NM cable for this type of installation.


This is true. with old SE you can bond your new receptacles ground to the old bare SE nuetral

747 07-02-2008 02:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrjoeygee1 (Post 135276)
Sorry re: the odd "labeling"...here's the set up. The cook top is gas...5-burners...with elec. ignition. The ovens are both conventional and convection and require a 50 amp circuit. http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_1...0070921x00003a

Two different "fuels", gas and elec. I'm assuming that the white would carry the 120 for the electronics and the black would carry the 220 load. The service in the wall came out of the old double oven and was split on the interior into B, W and R. I am not moving the service, I just took the cabinet out and put a plug in the box.

Thanks, guys!


Wow 50 amp circuit. The biggest i have in my fuse box is 25 everything else is 20 or 15.:laughing:

mrjoeygee1 07-02-2008 09:25 AM

Belabored
 
Glad to hear it. Here, then, is my final question. Is there a way to wire the 4 pole for a 3-wire or is it better to go get the old-style three wire cord and 3-pole plug?

Thanks, Micro



joe g.
:)



Quote:

Originally Posted by micromind (Post 135279)
Whew!! Had me worried there for a minute!

Using your original wiring will be just fine. Instead of having a neutral and a ground, you'll have a combination neutral/ground.

Rob


micromind 07-02-2008 07:16 PM

It wouldn't be legal to wire a 4 pole receptacle to a 3 wire circuit.

If it were me, I'd get a 3 wire receptacle, the 'crowfoot' kind with 3 flat slots, and a cord to match. These commonly come in two versions, 30 amp (for dryers), and 50 amp (for ranges). The neutral/ground slot on the 50 amp one is the same size as the other two slots. On the 30, it's L shaped.

Obviously, you'd need the 50.

Rob

mrjoeygee1 07-02-2008 07:40 PM

'Preciate it.
 
This is a Texas-ism...it means "thanks"! I'm off to get a 3-pole plug and cord to match.

Regards,

joe g.




Quote:

Originally Posted by micromind (Post 135503)
It wouldn't be legal to wire a 4 pole receptacle to a 3 wire circuit.

If it were me, I'd get a 3 wire receptacle, the 'crowfoot' kind with 3 flat slots, and a cord to match. These commonly come in two versions, 30 amp (for dryers), and 50 amp (for ranges). The neutral/ground slot on the 50 amp one is the same size as the other two slots. On the 30, it's L shaped.

Obviously, you'd need the 50.

Rob



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