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Old 03-30-2010, 10:10 PM   #16
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Wiring a Spa and THHN question.


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Originally Posted by brric View Post
That GFCI will work just fine without a neutral if the spa does not require one.
I just want to make it clear I am pretty sure you understand this but if you have GFCI breaker at the spa panel then you must bring the netural to the spa panel but after the GFCI if spa do not require the netural then you can leave the netural out of it but you will need netural to get the GFCI to function without netural the GFCI will not function at all.

Merci,Marc

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Old 03-30-2010, 10:26 PM   #17
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Wiring a Spa and THHN question.


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Originally Posted by Scuba_Dave View Post
(3) #6's & (1) #8 will fit in 3/4" & meet 40% fill per calculator
Bigger is better...I think I used 1" on mine
If you have a light in the Spa then you probably need 4 wires
i had to find the right table from the NEC on this as i'm used to dealing with the CEC but pvc 40 is good for 4 6's and 80 is only good for 3....add in the ground and your over the limit. Pvc conduit fill rules are different from any metal conduit.
:D so we're both right....it's got to be 1" before the GFCI and 3/4" is good afterwards.
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Old 03-30-2010, 11:07 PM   #18
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Wiring a Spa and THHN question.


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Originally Posted by frenchelectrican View Post
If the hot tub is a straght 240 volt set up no netural then it will not needed however you still need to bring the netural to the GFCI breaker or spa panel as JV posted.

Btw there is a bit of restriction on codewise so inspector will have best answer for the codewise in your area.

Merci,Marc
Yes, your absolutely correct.
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Old 03-30-2010, 11:58 PM   #19
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Wiring a Spa and THHN question.


I was told by spa place & inspector that the quick disconnect has to be at least 5 feet and no greater than 10 feet. I was also told that the GFCI must be at least 10 feet way from spa. Thus i can NOT use the GFCI breaker as the disconnect.

I am now planning to do romex (#4 w/ 8 solid ground or #6 w/ 10 solid ground) from panel to GFCI then same from GFCI to Disconnect, then same to Box at side of house where i will have a splice and transfer to Liquid tight conduit and 4-#6 THHN/THWN to Spa.

Is the #10 ground wire ok, Is the # 10 ground wire ok or do i need to look for 6/4 (where all 4 wires are at least #6)?

Should i spend extra $ and up size wire to #4?

Is the #10 ground wire ok or do i need to look for 6/4 (where all 4 wires are #6)?

Regarding GFCI - I was told by spa place, electrician & inspector that i need a GFCI even for a 3 wire spa. According to the GFCI (Midwest with GE breaker) I bought it will still work with 2 hots and a ground (no neutral).
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Old 03-30-2010, 11:58 PM   #20
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Wiring a Spa and THHN question.


If ALL the equipment on the hot tub is 220 volt (Pumps heater ozone)The 3 wire set up will work. But if any of the equipment needs to operate on 120 volt, this is where your load neutral will come into the picture (4 wire) NOTE I have seen many people for some reason get the idea that a ground rod at the hot tub will give them their "earth ground" and they won't run a ground wire from the main panel, RUN YOUR GROUND WIRE ALL THE WAY TO YOUR MAIN PANEL. . Pay attention to your GFCI breaker.Your "load" neutral needs to terminate on the breaker not the neutral buss. The "pigtail" from the breaker goes to the buss bar. I've seen the "Best" of electricians mess that one up.

You misunderstood your inspector/ Spa place your means of disconnect CANNOT be closer than 5 feet, but it needs to be within sight of the equipment, feeding the tub with 6/3 w ground will work just fine.
Just a note I have had some inspectors make sure that the pumps & control panel be bonded w/ #6 bare copper to the control panel ground buss. (within tub cabinet)
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Old 03-31-2010, 12:18 AM   #21
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Wiring a Spa and THHN question.


there's seems to be alot of confusion as to wether or not you need a neutral on the line side to the GFCI. As french stated it is an absolute must as without it the electronics in the GFCI won't work right. It's not required on the load though. I'm sure if you look in your owners manual it'll show a diagram with a line side neutral and no load side neutral....i'd double check the code on spas as well as i think the spa place is yanking your chain on needing the double disconnect. All you should need is the one GFCI disconnect
taken from NEC
"The maintenance disconnecting means must be readily accessible and within sight of the permanently installed pool, storable pool, outdoor spa, outdoor hot tub, or fountain equipment. It must also be at least 5 ft from any of these, unless separated from the open water by a permanently installed barrier that provides a 5-ft reach path or greater. Measure the horizontal distance from the water's edge along the shortest path required to reach the disconnecting means."
In addition when i was looking this up it also says that the second means of disconnect at the spa isn't required for family homes...only for commercial uses.
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Old 03-31-2010, 12:20 AM   #22
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Wiring a Spa and THHN question.


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Originally Posted by g.gauvreau View Post
You misunderstood your inspector/ Spa place your means of disconnect CANNOT be closer than 5 feet, but it needs to be within sight of the equipment, feeding the tub with 6/3 w ground will work just fine.
Just a note I have had some inspectors make sure that the pumps & control panel be bonded w/ #6 bare copper to the control panel ground buss. (within tub cabinet)
I do not know if you are from Canada or USA but in USA if that person do run the conduit to the spa on the outdoor location you can not run bare conductor at all it have to be green in colour.

Merci,Marc

Last edited by frenchelectrican; 03-31-2010 at 12:23 AM.
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Old 03-31-2010, 12:22 AM   #23
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Wiring a Spa and THHN question.


it's not legal in Canada either to run bare copper underground.
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Old 03-31-2010, 12:25 AM   #24
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Wiring a Spa and THHN question.


Andrew.,

If you have time can you run me the CEC code in your area for the code number ? so this way I can able keep it in my notepad in case someone try to shake the maple tree { just kidding } so that way I can able post the number to stop them in track

Merci,Marc
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Old 03-31-2010, 02:16 AM   #25
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Wiring a Spa and THHN question.


awww your going to make me get out my codebook . I'll see what i can do about getting you that info. Actually it seems to me if i recall correctly that the only time it's permissable to run a bare ground in any type of conduit is if it's the only wire in the pipe. and i'm pretty sure it's exclusively for pvc. I'm not sure though as trade practice is to always use insulated. Wouldn't make much sense to put a bare ground in a chunk of emt...you'd need a whole lot of nolux for that one.
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Old 03-31-2010, 11:00 PM   #26
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Wiring a Spa and THHN question.


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Originally Posted by frenchelectrican View Post
I do not know if you are from Canada or USA but in USA if that person do run the conduit to the spa on the outdoor location you can not run bare conductor at all it have to be green in colour.

Merci,Marc
The bare copper ground that I stated is NOT in the conduit. As stated the ground in the conduit needs to be a green insulated conductor.
The bare copper ground I am referring to bonds the pump motors & heater inside the spa cabinet, some inspectors will also require that ground to be installed UNBROKEN. What a pain in the butt that can be.
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Old 03-31-2010, 11:38 PM   #27
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Wiring a Spa and THHN question.


g.gauvreau.,

I do understand that statement about the bare bonding conductor and yeah they can be pain in whatever .,,, but for my area if they request unbroken then I do use either single piece of bare conductor or irreversable compression crimps one of the two.

Merci,Marc
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Old 04-01-2010, 06:30 AM   #28
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Wiring a Spa and THHN question.


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Originally Posted by g.gauvreau View Post
The bare copper ground I am referring to bonds the pump motors & heater inside the spa cabinet, some inspectors will also require that ground to be installed UNBROKEN. What a pain in the butt that can be.
This is a BOND as you state. it is NOT a ground.

There is NO requirement for this to be unbroken. If an inspector would demand that my first question would be "Where do I find that in the code book.
For a package spa that WOULD be a PIA! Luckily package spas are always done at the factory.
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Old 04-01-2010, 12:43 PM   #29
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Wiring a Spa and THHN question.


i haven't done alot of spa's but the ones i have done are prewired at the factory. All you have to do is tie into an set of lugs.
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Old 04-02-2010, 11:41 AM   #30
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Wiring a Spa and THHN question.


Something not discussed on this thread is the equipotential bonding grid. If this spa sits on a concrete pad, on the ground or on paving stones or bricks the grid must be installed.
Its much easier to install your grid now, not after you are done. You should discuss this with your inspector before you do anything.

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