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-   -   Wiring a Spa and THHN question. (http://www.diychatroom.com/f18/wiring-spa-thhn-question-67918/)

skleinsmith 03-30-2010 01:32 AM

Wiring a Spa and THHN question.
 
I am wiring a Spa. I plan on doing the work/wire running my self and having and electrician do the final hookup.

Location = Shasta County CA.

This is the project.

Spa needs 60Amp service (spa panel states 48 Amps - has 3 motors).

I have a 200 amp service with open breaker locations. I have 60 amp breaker (NOT GFCI - same brand as panel) for main box. (GFCI will be explained later.)

I have some THHN left over from other job (Sub panel in pump House = Romex (or similar) in house, to box then THHN into conduit Underground to Sub panel) #6 THHN wire (Red, Black, White, Green).

Can i use THHN wire in the garage walls without putting it into conduit or is THHN wire only for conduit? Can i use THHN wire in the attic space or does it have to be in conduit?

I have 60 amp Spa GFCI box (plan to put ~15 feet (walking distance) from Spa). I was told that this is recommended to avoid trips due to "long" runs. Also i got SPA box for good price. Note GFCI = code and must be atleast 10 feet from spa (walking distance).

I have disconnect (required by local code) that will be 5-10 feet from Spa.

Total wire run = less than 50 feet.

Can i use the THHN that i have or do i need romex (or similar) in the walls and attic space?

Can i run THHN in the walls but attic space has to also be in conduit? If that is the case can it go directly into conduit (pvc or that flex blue stuff) or does it have to be in a box first?

My current plan = starting at main pannel, 4 wires (red, black, white, green) 60 amp breaker into wall, thru header, thru attic space, into 3/4 pvc conduit, into GFCI box. Then 3 wire (red, black, green)(as spa is 2005 Maxx 705 and is 3 wire setup) into pvc 3/4 conduit, back into attic (out of conduit) thru attic, into 3/4 pvc conduit into 60A disconnect, Then back into 3/4 pvc back into attic (out of conduit), down wall into Box (no wire cutting here) into 3/4 liquid tight conduit to Spa.

Or do i need to get romex (or smilar) for in the walls and attic space. Also would i still use #6 romex and can it be in the 3/4 pvc conduit?

As i said previously. I have #6 THHN wire (red black, White & Green) already from previous job (bought rolls for cost savings). Thus i would like to use if i can.

Any other advise?

Edit 3/30 22:00 pacific

I plan on getting it inspected by county.

I was told by spa place & inspector that the quick disconnect has to be at least 5 feet and no greater than 10 feet. I was also told that the GFCI must be at least 10 feet way from spa. Thus i can NOT use the GFCI breaker as the disconnect.

I am now planning to do romex (#4 w/ 8 solid ground or #6 w/ 10 solid ground) from panel to GFCI then same from GFCI to Disconnect, then same to Box at side of house where i will have a splice and transfer to Liquid tight conduit and 4-#6 THHN/THWN to Spa.

Is the #10 ground wire ok, Is the # 10 ground wire ok or do i need to look for 6/4 (where all 4 wires are at least #6)?

Should i spend extra $ and up size wire to #4?

Is the #10 ground wire ok or do i need to look for 6/4 (where all 4 wires are #6)?

Regarding GFCI - I was told by spa place, electrician & inspector that i need a GFCI even for a 3 wire spa. According to the GFCI (Midwest with GE breaker) I bought it will still work with 2 hots and a ground (no neutral).

I will check the spa when it is wired to make sure that it is 3 or 4 wire. I will have all 4 wires run to the spa just incase (or if i ever change it out.)

Edit 3/31 15:50 pacific

I opened spa and confirmed that it is only a 3 wire system. This "240 V 3 wire system" is in bold text on the electrical box and inside the box the terminal is clearly marked (Red 120V /Black 120V /Green Ground). Everything goes thru the computer boards and the lights are 12V. Also the spa was previously wired the same way previously (i know that does not really matter).

Scuba_Dave 03-30-2010 08:01 AM

THHN needs conduit - always, and if its to be buried at all it needs to be THWN
There are very specific rules for wiring a Spa
Read up on NEC section 680

J. V. 03-30-2010 01:34 PM

1 Attachment(s)
You have me somewhat confused regarding going back into the attic just to come back out to feed the spa outside. Why two disconnects? The spa box (pictured) includes the GFCI disconnect and the required convenience GFCI protected receptacle.

Just run the 3/4" conduit all the way from the panel straight to the spa disconnect panel. Then run another 3/4" conduit to the spa connection box.
Here is a picture of a spa disconnect with receptacle. If you have one like this you need no other disconnect or receptacle.

This job will require a permit and inspection. Talk to the AHJ now so you can get an idea of how the inspector wants things done.
It is critical this job is performed to NEC standards at minimum. Your life or someone else's life may depend on it.

Rudeboy 03-30-2010 03:03 PM

I imagine that he's trying to avoid running pipe in the garage or attic.

Pretty simple for him though:

Run 6-3 romex from panel to spa disco location.
Stub 6-3 romex out of the side of house. Knock out appropriate knockout.
Mount disco. Run conduit to spa. Run two #6 thwn, three if the spa requires neutral, don't forget to run a ground too. :yes:
Terminate conductors in spa, disco and panel.

Good to go.

Some spa discos don't have a factory installed GFCI receptacle so you may need to deal with that one too.

andrew79 03-30-2010 08:14 PM

if you can get three 6's and a ground into 3/4" pvc then your welcome to try it but i'm about 98% sure that this is going to go way over the conduit fill allowance. As for the disconnect then the box pictured above is the way to go...no point in having two disconnecting points. You'll either have to run romex from the panel to the point where it goes outside or run conduit all the way from the panel. Keep in mind that the wires need to be in a pvc sleave as they go through the wall and if i'm not mistaken the pipe will need to be sealed at both ends. Duct seal works well for this.

Scuba_Dave 03-30-2010 08:18 PM

(3) #6's & (1) #8 will fit in 3/4" & meet 40% fill per calculator
Bigger is better...I think I used 1" on mine
If you have a light in the Spa then you probably need 4 wires

Rudeboy 03-30-2010 08:21 PM

He only needs two #6's and a ground. No neutral. Even still I'd prolly go with 1" pvc.

Speedy Petey 03-30-2010 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skleinsmith (Post 421539)
I plan on doing the work/wire running my self and having and electrician do the final hookup.

So you are going to do all the hard and code intensive work and let the electrician do the easy stuff??

Why do SO many folks have this mentality? That "the hook-ups" are the hard or dangerous part.

Scuba_Dave 03-30-2010 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rudeboy (Post 421865)
He only needs two #6's and a ground. No neutral. Even still I'd prolly go with 1" pvc.

What are you basing this on ?

*EDIT* ...Thanks...read that 3x & still missed he stated 3 wire spa

Rudeboy 03-30-2010 08:25 PM

I think he's way over thinking this and at the same trying to use the material he already owns.

All of that in, out, up, down, back around would be much easier if you purchase some 6-3 romex and some staples.

brric 03-30-2010 08:25 PM

The spa box shown above is the way to go. The ones I have used contain a blank face GFCI that opens a contactor if a ground fault occurs. The ones I have used do not contain a GFCI receptacle. In our area this disconnect must be at least 5' from the spa and within sight of the spa.

Rudeboy 03-30-2010 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scuba_Dave (Post 421868)
What are you basing this on ?

In the OP he stated it.
I've wired many a hot tub or spa that require no neutral.:thumbsup:

frenchelectrican 03-30-2010 09:55 PM

If the hot tub is a straght 240 volt set up no netural then it will not needed however you still need to bring the netural to the GFCI breaker or spa panel as JV posted.

Btw there is a bit of restriction on codewise so inspector will have best answer for the codewise in your area.

Merci,Marc

Scuba_Dave 03-30-2010 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by frenchelectrican (Post 421939)
If the hot tub is a straght 240 volt set up no netural then it will not needed however you still need to bring the netural to the GFCI breaker or spa panel as JV posted.

Btw there is a bit of restriction on codewise so inspector will have best answer for the codewise in your area.

Merci,Marc

That's interesting...didn't think of that - neutral to the GFCI
I've never connected a GFCI without a neutral running to a hot tub
So the GFCI monitor both hots & if there is a problem it then trips ?
A little different to think of it working without a neutral to the device

brric 03-30-2010 10:24 PM

That GFCI will work just fine without a neutral if the spa does not require one.


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