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Old 10-13-2008, 11:28 PM   #16
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Wiring a single pole switch into a 220v circuit


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Scott, Id love to make my electrician help me fix these light circuits but he moved about 900 miles west. I think he got out when the getting was good!
He should be easy to find.. just follow the melted wires..

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Old 10-13-2008, 11:56 PM   #17
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Wiring a single pole switch into a 220v circuit


Right, I forgot about that. I be sure to replace that circuit breaker. When I finally get the shop put together, I'll send some pics. Good talking to you.
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Old 10-13-2008, 11:57 PM   #18
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Wiring a single pole switch into a 220v circuit


Good one
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Old 10-14-2008, 01:12 AM   #19
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Wiring a single pole switch into a 220v circuit


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Originally Posted by rlmorgan View Post

Marc, I dont follow what you are saying with this comments "IIRC it used about 800ish feet of #12's THHN/THWN" . An I dont understand what a Hi/Low set up is. Would you provide futhrer clarification of these comments please?

Sincerely
Rick
Sure Rick i can able explain more the reason why i say 800ish it mean about 800 feet or so of THHN/THWN conductor { wire } that is basied on lighting circuit not for genral receptale circuit at all if I did add receptale circuit it will be much higher than that.


The Hi/Low set up it mean I have dual wattage ballast system in there so on high postion the light will be running at full 400 watt and when i want to dim it down it will drop down about 180 or so watt each kinda like a dimmer { it program to come on high for first 15 min after that it can stay on high postion or I can switch over to low mode } those ballast useally are specal order item but I got from one of the large commercal jobsite where they order too many and got a deal from them.


Now my main condersation you mention 30 amp circuit it don't matter if you have it wired on 120 volt or 240 volts most HID ballast have very strict guideline for circuit protection normally for most run of mill ballast without fuse must be protected no more than 20 amp breaker unless it got fused in the ballast then you can able load it more { this useally not a common pratice but this done alot in large industrail sites or large parking lot luminaires as well }and there is a code section mention about the lighting circuit as well, I have to dig up that artile to make sure it right.

Merci,Marc
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Old 10-14-2008, 10:04 AM   #20
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Wiring a single pole switch into a 220v circuit


Marc,
So your saying that I should reduce my circuit amperage to 20 amps. That will still allow me to put as many as 8 to possibly 9 lights on each circuit as long I keep the voltage at 240V. Since we have already pulled #10 through the light circuit, I don't any reason to remove it and pull #12. Do you?

Also, I don't understand what IIRC is. Is it a term used to describe a type of rigid conduit?
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Old 10-14-2008, 10:21 AM   #21
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Wiring a single pole switch into a 220v circuit


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Since we have already pulled #10 through the light circuit, I don't any reason to remove it and pull #12.
I'll let Marc confirm the other part, but you can certainly put a 20A breaker on #10 wire.. You can never go wrong with a smaller breaker than what the wire is rated for. Well, the only "wrong" part is that #10 is more expensive than #12. Probably not worth your time to change it out though.
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Old 10-14-2008, 04:09 PM   #22
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Wiring a single pole switch into a 220v circuit


ScottR. and Rlmorgan. ,,

Let me explain little more clearer here.

Rlmorgan I am sorry I did misread it that you allready pulled #10 that fine with that set up and just use the 20 amp breakers and make a note on the conductor itself so in the future someone else don't get this mixed up being thought it is a 30 amp circuit.

Yes it is common to upsize the wire for long distance to prevent voltage drop.

The word IIRC mean If I Recall Correct that is a avberatted words .,, sorry for mix up and get this straght here .

Rlmorgan yes you can run many as 9 on 20 amp breaker.

For all the readers.,,

Let me clearify a detail here with the HID's and Flourscent luminaires.

To determed how much you can load them up we don't go by lamp wattage.
Go with the ballast amp { some case wattage } that will reflect the correct load reading on the lighting circuits.

I will give you a quick example here
Run of mill 400 w Pulse Start Metal Halide luminaire
sure we do know 400 watt bulb but you have to add ballast to the load figures so the actual wattage will be about 450~460 watt range dependign on the type of ballast.

that can really get ya by suprise with this espcally if the HID do have aux lightbulb in there

( A halogen bulb is used during either cold start up or restrike mode so you will have some light until the HID bulb start up and get over certen % of brightenss then it will run on HID itself)

Some commercal and Industrail luminaire do have this option so it can really screw up the load figures if not carefull.

Hope this will clear up few details what ya looking for.

Oh yeah.,,

The other thing at the switch location when you use the #10's make sure you get deepwell switch box due the wire size and they can be pretty stiff when ya try to push it in the box.

Merci,Marc
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Old 10-14-2008, 05:11 PM   #23
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Wiring a single pole switch into a 220v circuit


Thanks for the tip on the deep well boxes. The MH lights that I already have hanging do have the aux light bulb in them. So I need to figure the wattage based upon light bulb (400W), ballast (60W) and aux light (?W). Do you know what the wattage is on these type of lights and can you tell me how many watts are equal to 1 amp?
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Old 10-14-2008, 06:02 PM   #24
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Wiring a single pole switch into a 220v circuit


For the Aux bulb they useally either 100 or 150 or 250 watt quatz bulb depending of type of luminarie but most common is latter two { either 150 and 250'ers }

To add aux watts to the main ballast wattage here you should do is get 450 watts + 250 watts = 700 watt *

* It will depending on what size aux bulb it can affect or you can disconnect the aux circuit and it will not draw any current from that part.
( most common methold is remove the quatz bulb unless the ballast manufacter stated something else then we will play by ear on this one )

Now how many of them you have there ? if only few then you can have each one on per circuits otherwise you will overload the circuit from my orignal figures.

to figures watts here what you do is

A { amp } X V {voltage } = watts

Like example

10A X 240 v = 2400 watts

or

20A X 120v = 2400 watts

As you can see above when I add up ballast and aux bulb it will affect the circuit capitcy so with aux units you only may end up having 5 luminaire on 240 volt circuit or 3 on 120 v circuit this basied on 20 amp circuit.

That part it may change your layout a bit.

Merci,Marc
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Old 10-14-2008, 06:02 PM   #25
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Wiring a single pole switch into a 220v circuit


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To determed how much you can load them up we don't go by lamp wattage. Go with the ballast amp { some case wattage } that will reflect the correct load reading on the lighting circuits.
Just wanted to clarify that I think we were talking in the right terms before.. in an earlier post Rick said:

Quote:
They are 400 watt fixtures and are wired/hung at 240V/2 amps.
So we were talking about load using each fixture as 2A @ 240V and 4A @ 120V.

400W is the bulb rating, and 2A (480W) is the fixture rating, including ballast, etc.. Correct?

Thanks for the details Marc, it is good stuff to know!
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Old 10-14-2008, 06:04 PM   #26
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Wiring a single pole switch into a 220v circuit


My and Marc's last posts crossed, so I hadn't seen this...

Quote:
To add aux watts to the main ballast wattage here you should do is get 450 watts + 250 watts = 700 watt *

* It will depending on what size aux bulb it can affect or you can disconnect the aux circuit and it will not draw any current from that part.
( most common methold is remove the quatz bulb unless the ballast manufacter stated something else then we will play by ear on this one )
Ouch, that can make a big diff...
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Old 10-14-2008, 06:33 PM   #27
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Wiring a single pole switch into a 220v circuit


Wow! Major difference!! I think all the lights I have hanging have the aux light. That makes my current configuration of 16 lamps, 3 more lights than I should have. Worse yet the circuit is run with a #10 conductor. I'm probably lucky that I haven't had a fire yet.

Going with 20A 240V circuit will only allow me to put 6 lights on each circuit. If I need more lighting on a circuit I can just pull the aux light and that will give 250W per light back. That would let me hang up to 9 lights on a circuit. That should be more than enough in each area.

Thanks for the heads up Marc. Without that info, I would have screwed up there.

Rick
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Old 10-14-2008, 06:38 PM   #28
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Wiring a single pole switch into a 220v circuit


I just got back from the lumber yard where I was looking for a 2 pole 240V 20A toggle switch. They don,t carry them. I did find what they call a 4 way which looks like what I think I should be using. But, their 4 ways are only rated for 120V 15A circuits. Is a 2 pole toggle also called a 4 way toggle?
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Old 10-14-2008, 06:44 PM   #29
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Wiring a single pole switch into a 220v circuit


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I just got back from the lumber yard where I was looking for a 2 pole 240V 20A toggle switch. They don,t carry them. I did find what they call a 4 way which looks like what I think I should be using. But, their 4 ways are only rated for 120V 15A circuits. Is a 2 pole toggle also called a 4 way toggle?
No, 4 ways and double poles are different. And I hate to chime in this late in the thread, but a lighting circuit, being considered a continuous load, can only be loaded to 80% of it's rating. So on a 20 A circuit, you can only draw 16 A.
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Old 10-14-2008, 06:51 PM   #30
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Wiring a single pole switch into a 220v circuit


Hey Inphase277.,

I don't mind you join in the bandwagon here.

Rlmorgen In case you wondering why i say 9 luminaire { without aux bulb } on 240 v circuit due I allready derated to 80% rating of 20 amp circuit.

Ditto with 120 volt circuits { they are only limited to 4 sans aux or 2 or 3 with aux }


Now for the 4 way switch .,, No you can not use this on 240 volt circuit it will short it out.

You need to look at the label little closer extreally both 4way's and double pole switch look same but interal .,, no it is not the same.

Merci,Marc

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