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Old 04-03-2012, 07:59 PM   #1
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Wiring to shed question


built a 12x24 shed about 150' from the house. Total run to the main box is about 200'. I need to run a 120v 30A circuit for the RV plus a light inside, spots outside and a convenience outlet.

I was thinking of coming off the main box with a single 30A breaker, then running 6/2UF to the shed, then terminating in the shed with a small subpanel with 30A main, 30A to the trailer, and 15A branch to the lights and convenience receptacle. No need for 220 out in the shed, the question is do I need to run 6/3 to power a subpanel? What's the right way to do it?

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Old 04-03-2012, 09:38 PM   #2
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200' is a long way, but i believe 6/3 should be fine for voltage drop on 30amp Sub.
yes, double pole 30amp breaker in the main. run 6/3 +ground to the sub panel.
remove bonding srew on sub panel, connect two hots, neutral to bus bar, and separate ground.

are you running this wire buried thru conduit??

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Old 04-03-2012, 09:56 PM   #3
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It is legal to run this with 6/2 and have a 120 volt subpanel

6/2 (with ground) UF for direct burial


2 runs of #6 plus 1 #10(ground) THWN for conduit

2 grounds rods with #6 to the sub panel

Grounds and neutrals kept separate.

I would plainly label that this is a 120 volt only panel.

BTW: I would run the additional conductor and have 120/240 if it was my install.
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Old 04-03-2012, 10:05 PM   #4
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I seriously don't know if it is at all beneficial to run a 120V sub vs a 240V sub. 6-2 UF isn't exactly common. The prices of 6-2 vs 6-3 UF may be more similar than you would think.

I'm not 100% sure 30 A 120V feed out to the shed is enough if you already have a 30A 120V recept dedicated for the RV plus a lighting/rec circuit too.
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Old 04-04-2012, 08:20 AM   #5
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Wiring to shed question


The RV has a 30A max requirement, that means you can run the microwave while the a/c is on...it almost never runs on max draw. Here's what I've found in terms of wiring prices. The cheapest guy I found on the net is Wes Bell Wire and Cable in NH.

Here's how it breaks down:
  • 250' of 6/2-UF is $437.50.
  • 250' of 6/3-UF is $662.50.
  • THHN/THWN is $.84/ft, so 250' x 4 = 1000' = $840.00 PLUS the cost of the conduit. (Now, if I buy 1000' roll it drops to $.64/ft, but that means all one color. I guess I could cut the roll into 4 250' sections then use colored tape too identify the ends, but that's not ideal in my book...)


My original plan was to use THWN in PVC conduit, I was going to use #2 wire and put in a 100A subpanel as a service point to possible future pool equipment. Now we are rethinking pool location, and I really need to get this shed powered, so I'm scaling the project back accordingly.


Current plan is 6/2UF direct buried with no conduit and a 3/4 PEX water line in the same trench. The only reason for a subpanel at all at this point is so I don't have lighting powered off of a 30A circuit...I'd like to step down to AWG14 with a 15A breaker for the lighting.


If I absolutely need 220 for a subpanel, I would probably do a 40A main with 6/3UF feeding it. Above all I want the install to be NEC complaint, the locale is Shelby County KY if anyone knows local codes.
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Old 04-04-2012, 08:36 AM   #6
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Wiring to shed question


A couple of points:

With #6 and smaller wire you must use the correct colors, no remarking.

With THWN feeders you can use #10 for the ground.

NEC does not require 120/240 volt subs
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Old 04-04-2012, 09:29 AM   #7
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OK thanks. Maybe subpanel is the wrong term....what if I ran a 30A feed from the house directly to the RV power pedestal, then ran from that inside the shed to a disconnect box with a 20A breaker, then wired the lights and other outlets from that single circuit disconnect box?
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Old 04-04-2012, 09:43 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by Burbman View Post
OK thanks. Maybe subpanel is the wrong term....what if I ran a 30A feed from the house directly to the RV power pedestal, then ran from that inside the shed to a disconnect box with a 20A breaker, then wired the lights and other outlets from that single circuit disconnect box?
In that case I would buy a RV pedastal with both a 30 amp and a 20 amp breaker and receptacle. Run the feed to the shed off the 20 amp breaker and install a single pole switch in the shed as the disconnect.



http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-25ec...&storeId=10051

This is what I found on a quick search, you might want to find one with GFCI breakers or install a 30 amp GFCI at the main panel.
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Old 04-04-2012, 09:46 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rjniles
A couple of points:

With #6 and smaller wire you must use the correct colors, no remarking.

With THWN feeders you can use #10 for the ground.

NEC does not require 120/240 volt subs
If you have your code book handy, take a look at 250.122 (B).

The way I read that is that you would be required to run a #6 ground.
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Old 04-04-2012, 10:17 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by k_buz View Post
If you have your code book handy, take a look at 250.122 (B).

The way I read that is that you would be required to run a #6 ground.
Just read it and now trying to understand it. Since the OP is up sizing the conductor from a normal #10, 30 amp feeder to a #6, 30 amp feeder to account for voltage drop over the long distance, he would need to up-size the ground two wire sizes also?

Apparently that is the intent but I fail to see the rational.

OP sorry I gave you bad info but since you are now leaning toward UF cable, it is moot.

K buz, thanks for the heads up, it was a new one on me ( I am an engineer and we are not always the brightest bulbs in the box.)
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Old 04-04-2012, 10:17 AM   #11
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Wiring to shed question


RJ, I was just getting ready to post the same picture! I would install this on the outside back wall of the shed (RV parked next to it), then run a #12 off of the 20A breaker to a switch or single circuit disconnect inside the shed, and then run lights from there. This should all meet code, right?
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Old 04-04-2012, 10:37 AM   #12
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RJ, I was just getting ready to post the same picture! I would install this on the outside back wall of the shed (RV parked next to it), then run a #12 off of the 20A breaker to a switch or single circuit disconnect inside the shed, and then run lights from there. This should all meet code, right?
I believe it does. Make sure you install that RV box according to manufacturers instructions. I would be interested in what they say about ground rods
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Old 04-04-2012, 10:43 AM   #13
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The RV box is a subpanel and the 6/3UF cable to it is a feeder going to a detached structure. Ground rod required.
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Old 04-04-2012, 12:24 PM   #14
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The RV box is a subpanel and the 6/3UF cable to it is a feeder going to a detached structure. Ground rod required.
The RV box is 120 volt only, the OP is using 6/2 UF.

We camping in Florida (a Florida state park) this past February and the power pole at are site was configured like the one above. The lower front panel was missing and the cabling was exposed. There was a 3 wire direct buried triplex cable (3 insulated conductors) but no ground rod connections. Not sure if that was allowed when this work was done or it was wrong then (not sure of the age of the power pole and wiring).
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Old 04-04-2012, 12:53 PM   #15
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Just finished reviewing 551.76 (A) (This whole section is RV and RV parks)

Grounding-Non-current carrying exposed metal parts.

"... shall be grounded by an equipment grounding conductor run with the current carrying conductors to the service equipment or secondary transformer. ....."

I do not see a requirement for a ground rod. Manufacturers instructions or local amendments make supersede.

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