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Old 01-06-2011, 01:23 PM   #1
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Wiring for new 220V Dryer question


Hi,
I am installing a new Dryer and would like some clarification on how to wire this up. I have an existing load center, 2 hots, 1 Neutral. I understand that I will be required to run a 10/4 Armored cable from the box to the dryer. Connecting the dryer is easy enough as all the poles are there, the question is, what do you do with the ground wire at the load center? A contractor friend of mine told me you connect the ground to the neutral bus, along with the neutral. True? There doesn't seem to be any other way to connect the ground wire that wouldn't be considered a jerry-rigging. Thanks for any help you may offer. If your reply will include a statement on how stupid I am, please don't bother, I'm here because I don't want to do something stupid... and dangerous.
thank you.

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Old 01-06-2011, 01:56 PM   #2
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Wiring for new 220V Dryer question


Is the panel the main panel or a sub panel ?
In a main panel neutral & ground bars are connected together
In a sub panel they must be kept separate

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Old 01-06-2011, 02:43 PM   #3
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Wiring for new 220V Dryer question


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Originally Posted by nycguy View Post
Hi,
I am installing a new Dryer and would like some clarification on how to wire this up. I have an existing load center, 2 hots, 1 Neutral. I understand that I will be required to run a 10/4 Armored cable from the box to the dryer. Connecting the dryer is easy enough as all the poles are there, the question is, what do you do with the ground wire at the load center? A contractor friend of mine told me you connect the ground to the neutral bus, along with the neutral. True? There doesn't seem to be any other way to connect the ground wire that wouldn't be considered a jerry-rigging. Thanks for any help you may offer. If your reply will include a statement on how stupid I am, please don't bother, I'm here because I don't want to do something stupid... and dangerous.
thank you.
Certainly not a stupid question at all. As Scuba replied if this is the service equipment panel your talking about then the neutrals and grounds go to the same terminal bus. The service equipment panel will be fed with 3 wires from the utility H-H-N and is the first place where a disconnect exists that will disconnect your home from the utility ...often this will be a main breaker in the panel. You should be able to determine this as you will see in most cases white neutrals and bare grounds connected to the same bus. There will also be a main bonding 'green' screw or a bonding jumper that bonds (connects) the metal of the panel to the neutral bus.

It is possible if you do not have ground wires per say that your wiring method includes metal conduit in which case the metal conduit could be acting as your ground instead of a 'ground wire' .

At any rate if your dryer branch circuit is orginating in the 'service equipment' then grounds and neutrals connect to the same bus.

At the dryer you need to follow the new dryers instructions for a 4 wire connection. This usually means to make sure the metal chassis bonding wire or metal strap is removed and/or disconnected from the neutral terminal on the back of the dryer. It will look something like this when you are finished.
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Wiring for new 220V Dryer question-4-wire-dryer-option-1.jpg  
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Old 01-07-2011, 11:59 AM   #4
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Wiring for new 220V Dryer question


Thanks for the Reply Scuba Dave & Stubbie,
I'll give you a little more detail... I'm in an apartment building. the Electrical service comes into the building in the basement, where it's metered and there is a master circuit breaker. from there the service runs up to my apartment and box (load Center) I'll attach a pic for your reference.
The box is a 125A 12/24 Siemens Load Center MN: G1224L1125CU (Copper Buss). One thing I noticed when I removed the panel this morning to take the pic is that there does seem to be a factory installed Grounding buss, this is pointed out in the pic on the Left Side. I have nothing connected to it now. the other arrow in the pic points to the Neutral bar that does have a green screw which is reffered to as the bonding screw. I have not screwed this down, so it is not in contact with the neutral bus. One other thing you should know about NYC is that the grounding is through the BX (armored cable), which is connected to a cold water pipe in the basement of the building. I did put a volt meter across the Grounding bar and the two hots, resulting in 120V on the meter, which indicates to me that it is a good ground. Now knowing that there appears to be a grounding bar, would I connect the Green gound wire from my 10/4 to this bar as opposed to the Nuetral bar?
I don't really understand what "bonding" the neutral and ground means, and what the repercussions are. Can I assume that if I were to connect the ground wire and neutral wire to the neutral bar, that would be bonding the neutral and ground for the dryer? and would that be OK? would it be preferable to connect the ground wire to the ground bar? (which makes more sense to me).
Thank again for your help.

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Old 01-07-2011, 12:53 PM   #5
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Wiring for new 220V Dryer question


Excellent details NYCguy that's the information we needed.

Your panel is not the service equipment so you do not connect any ground wires to the neutral buses you see along side the circuit breakers. That copper bar with black insulation is your bonding bar to electrically join (bond) the two neutral buses. The green screw should not be installed as you verified it was not screwed into the metal panel back ... that is how it should be.

Your grounding method for the wiring is bx metal conduit which is why there is an absence of bare grounding wires.

To answer your question in your situation if you were to connect or bond ground and neutral together ... neutral current would split and use both the ground and neutral to return to the service disconnect and then from there to the source transformer. You never want system current to energize and flow on your ground. Equipment ground only carries current in the event of a ground fault so that a breaker will trip and clear the fault.

Anyway .. if your working in an apartment you need to work with the land lord and make sure you are allowed to do the work (wiring for that dryer) as you will have a degree of liability without licensing in most cases.

So that you will know your green or bare ground in the 10/4 will go to that grounding bar in the left of the panel. Again you should check with the landlord before completing your project.
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Old 01-07-2011, 12:53 PM   #6
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Wiring for new 220V Dryer question


I see a bar going across &connecting both neutral & ground bars together
I also see the green grounding screw in the upper right of the bar on the right
I usually see that totally removed

How old is this place ?
Usually after a disconnect you then have 4 wire feeds
But maybe the main breaker you are talking about is for the whole building ?
Or maybe this install is older & its only 3 wires
Or possibly its different for an Apt complex

Can you see any ground wires in the box at all ?

Ah I see.....just realized the ground bar is on the left side
Stubbie is right of course
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Old 01-07-2011, 01:03 PM   #7
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Wiring for new 220V Dryer question


2 issues I see:

NYC apartment. I am sure the OP can not do this work himself. Licenced electricain and permit required.

I also do not see a connection to the ground bar. Perhaps the incoming supply conductors are in conduit and the conduit is the grounding conductor.

Also ? to the OP: Was there never a dryer in this location before. If there is an existing 3 wire dryer connection, you may reuse it for a replacement dryer.
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Old 01-07-2011, 01:08 PM   #8
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Wiring for new 220V Dryer question


Thanks Guys,
Ok, so Ground will go to the ground bar (which is connected to the steel box and bx etc.) neutral to the neutral bar (i should just remove that screw altogether, ya think?) and the two hots to my new 220V 30amp breaker, sound right?
I am consulting the landlord on the project, and will have an electrician look over the work before I seal it all up. I just can't afford to have them do all the time consuming stuff like running the bx, placing outlets etc, that's why I'm doing most of the work myself.
:-)
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Old 01-07-2011, 01:10 PM   #9
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Wiring for new 220V Dryer question


Oh one other thing... on the dryer I'll remove the metal chassis bonding strap, yes? since the ground will be going directly to the ground bar.
thanks again.
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Old 01-07-2011, 01:10 PM   #10
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Wiring for new 220V Dryer question


Rjniles is correct assuming there are no local codes requiring a 4 wire dryer connection. 3 wire electric dryers are allowed but there are exceptions that must be met.

Another reason you need to cover your %$%$ before finishing your project...

And yes you will remove the bonding strap from the dryer metal chassis
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Old 01-07-2011, 01:17 PM   #11
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Wiring for new 220V Dryer question


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2 issues I see:

NYC apartment. I am sure the OP can not do this work himself. Licenced electricain and permit required.

I also do not see a connection to the ground bar. Perhaps the incoming supply conductors are in conduit and the conduit is the grounding conductor.

Also ? to the OP: Was there never a dryer in this location before. If there is an existing 3 wire dryer connection, you may reuse it for a replacement dryer.
the ground is through the BX conduit, and steel box. it all gets connected to a big ground lug & wire which is clamped to an incoming water pipe in the basement. normal in NYC.
There was no dryer in the location previously, so wiring has to be new.

When you say that you're sure this can't be done by the original poster (op), why is that?
thanks for your help,
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Old 01-07-2011, 05:23 PM   #12
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Wiring for new 220V Dryer question


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When you say that you're sure this can't be done by the original poster (op), why is that?
thanks for your help,
New install definitely requires a 4 wire circuit.

Most jurisdictions (and I am sure NYC) require electrical work in rental and/or multi family dwellings to be done by a licensed electrician. If you have an electrician that will pull the permit and sign off on the install, you are good to go.
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Old 01-07-2011, 05:59 PM   #13
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Wiring for new 220V Dryer question


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Most jurisdictions (and I am sure NYC) require electrical work in rental and/or multi family dwellings to be done by a licensed electrician. If you have an electrician that will pull the permit and sign off on the install, you are good to go.
Funny, even after all the warnings about this I don't think the OP really cares.
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Old 01-07-2011, 06:00 PM   #14
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Wiring for new 220V Dryer question


Another reason to call in a pro is to correct the violations in that panel, such as confirm a valid ground and remove that bond screw.
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Old 01-07-2011, 06:23 PM   #15
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Wiring for new 220V Dryer question


Hi Pete,
I'm not sure why you'd assume I don't care, I wouldn't be here asking questions if that were the case. Could you share with me the violations you see in the box?

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