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Old 10-29-2009, 10:24 PM   #1
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Wiring GFCI's in kitchen and baths


So I'm fixing up a home that didn't have GFCI's and looking to add them to the kitchen and both baths. In the bathrooms they both only have one outlet and the kitchen has 3 that I want to protect. Now in the kitchen the circuit for those 3 also go to the fridge and others that I don't want protected. So I know you can put in a gfci at the beginning of the circuit to protect them all but I don't want the whole circuit covered, just the 3 counter outlets. So can I put gfci's in the 3 outlets and just have the outlets protect themselves rather than the whole circuit? Thinking I can put the hots together and just pigtail to the hot line terminal, then same for neutral. Leaving the hot and neutral load terminals empty. Would this work and be ok to set it up this way? If I can do it this way then I will be running the bathroom outlets the same way unless someone objects.

Thanks in advance for the help!

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Old 10-29-2009, 10:35 PM   #2
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Wiring GFCI's in kitchen and baths


Your plan is sound. You may have trouble fitting the GFI's into the boxes. Just something to watch out for.

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Old 10-29-2009, 10:45 PM   #3
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Wiring GFCI's in kitchen and baths


If it goes from the 1st outlet - GFCI - to the next 3 off the load then they will be GFCI protected
If the fridge is AFTER these then it will also be GFCI protected

If you pigtail & continue off the LINE side then it will work with a GFCI outlet at each box
You need to buy tamper resistant GFCI to meet NEC 2008

I simply put my fridge on a seperate 15a circuit by itself
Then I don't have to worry about anything tripping the fridge except the fridge

Do you already have 2 small circuits on the counter top ?
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Old 10-29-2009, 11:24 PM   #4
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Wiring GFCI's in kitchen and baths


I will check out the circuits tomorrow. I had someone doing work in the home, think I recall him saying the fridge was on the same line and i know the counters are on 20a line(s). I can check to see if it's one or two lines through the kitchen and if fridge is at front or back of its line, but overall it seemed easier for me to just buy 2 extra gfci outlets and install them if possible and be done with it. Heck, then the wife is happier too since all the counter outlets look the same! I picked up Pass and Seymour 20a gfci's today (tamper proof?), which also claim to be shorter in depth to help with wires in the box.
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Old 10-29-2009, 11:40 PM   #5
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Wiring GFCI's in kitchen and baths


Dave -- The tamper "resistant" GFI's are new to me but look like a good idea. But what then is required of the receptacles downstream from the GFI (or if you use a GFI breaker). Do they also need to be tamper resistant? Is this issue covered in the 08 code cycle? Thanks. - Phil
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Old 10-30-2009, 08:33 AM   #6
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Wiring GFCI's in kitchen and baths


Under NEC 2008 almost every 15a/20a outlet in the house needs to be a Tamper resistant receptacle
Tamper resistant is to prevent people (children mainly) from sticking items into sockets

Outside they need to be TR & weather resistant (WR)
This has boosted the cost of these items
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Old 10-30-2009, 09:21 AM   #7
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Wiring GFCI's in kitchen and baths


mike2181,

its a good idea to split up the network as your fridge should
1) NOT be connected to a GFI
2) NOT share with any other receptacle (i.e. it should go from the breaker panel in the basement direct to the fridge and that's it, except i think you're allowed to power a clock from this line too)

i think most new kitchen wiring is done at 20A now a days, so this is something to consider.

in canada, ESA has gotten rid of the above counter adjacency requirement as it is useless (so says their research).

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Old 10-30-2009, 11:46 AM   #8
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Dave - Thanks for the reply but I guess I didn't make my question very clear. I haven't seen any receptacles (either GFI or plain vanilla) labeled tamper resistant (TR) in any of the places that I buy electrical stuff. Admittedly, I'm in Puerto Rico at the moment, where change comes slowly and code enforcement is literally non-existent. But I didn't see any in the States when I was last there (Sept.). Are all 120V/15-20A receptacles now TR? I doubt it because you can still buy the 89c ones. So what gives? Have I just not noticed them? -- Phil
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Old 10-30-2009, 11:50 AM   #9
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NEC 2008 is being accepted state by state, as each state has accepted it the availability has increased
Mass accepted it in Jan 2008, & they were hard to find
All kinds of outlets are still available - 2 prong, 3 prong, TR, TR & WR
I'm not sure if/when all outlets will be TR, probably as demand for the old style slows down they may stop making them
Or stores may stop carrying them as sales slow down - may take years

PR is supposed to adopt NEC 2008 in 2010

http://www.childoutletsafety.org/fil...doptionMap.pdf
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Old 10-30-2009, 01:29 PM   #10
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Interesting - thanks for the map. OR, where I live most of the time, is listed as 10/08. I had a rough-in electrical inspection done that summer, and there was no mention of TR. Since final won't happen until next summer, that means I'll have to replace every single receptacle! But I'll ask the inspector infromally before I bite the bullet. As for PR, there's no inspection of res wiring so code changes don't mean a whole lot. But I don't remember seeing TR in any HD in OR or NC (6/08 adoption date).
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Old 10-30-2009, 02:46 PM   #11
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Lots of areas only enforce the code cycle that was in effect when the permit was pulled.
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Old 10-30-2009, 05:08 PM   #12
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It takes 3 years for some states to adopt the new code!!! In Canada you have a 3 months of grace period from the time the new code comes out. I don't know what happens if your project straddles the deadline but the code would apply to anything inspected after the deadline. The CSA code comes out every 4 years.
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Old 10-31-2009, 01:58 AM   #13
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Well did some electrical today at the house. As for the kitchen their are two 20a circuits running behind the counters. First circuit has two behind the counter and one in the dining room. The other circuit has the fridge and two other outlets(one over the counter, other on dining room wall).
Now I went around the house today flipping fuses one by one and made a list of what each fuse powers in the house. Dumb question perhaps, but how do I cut the power to my thermostat? I pulled the batteries out of the thermostat and cut the house power, yet the thermostat is still drawing power......how is this possible?
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Old 11-01-2009, 12:57 PM   #14
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Wiring GFCI's in kitchen and baths


Nobody on the thermostat? I cut all power in house yet it still displays info on screen. Should I just replace it hot since it's low voltage?
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Old 11-01-2009, 01:05 PM   #15
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Wiring GFCI's in kitchen and baths


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