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Old 11-24-2012, 10:59 PM   #1
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Wiring garage outlets from a subpanel


Hello everyone.

I have an attached garage (20x20) which is finished so I don't want to break into the walls and ceiling. It has two 15amp plugs in the wall, one 15amp plug in the ceiling (garage door opener), and two lightbulbs in the ceiling.

When I had some remodeling done I had the contractor install a 100 amp sub in the garage. So I have some sanity questions.

The sub panel is surface mounted. It is my intention to run surface mounted EMT for plugs that will be used for normal garage stuff (drills, table saw, crosscut). My thought is one 20amp breaker per wall. I am thinking of running the EMT to the ceiling and then drop down to the first plug box then plug box to plug box.

One of the things I do notice is that the lights in the garage dim when my table saw first powers up. It is on a 115v plug should I rewire it to 240v?

Does my plan sound ok?
How many plugs per circuit should I run?
Do I need to run a separate ground or can the EMT be used as the ground?
I have looked into multi-wire branch circuits but there seems to several cons to doing that, thoughts?

Question about sub panel grounding. I read in a different post that the sub panel is suppose to have a #6 ground running to two 6-foot grounding rods outside. Is this a fact? (I already knew the ground and the neutral in the sub panel are to be isolated.

Can I run an underground circuit (proper depth of course) to my shed which is about 30-feet away? I want to put a motion flood light and inside lights out there.

Thank you,
Fred

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Old 11-25-2012, 12:40 AM   #2
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Wiring garage outlets from a subpanel


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Originally Posted by ACR_SCOUT View Post
Hello everyone.

I have an attached garage (26x30) which is finished so I don't want to break into the walls and ceiling. It has two 15amp plugs in the wall, one 15amp plug in the ceiling (garage door opener), and two lightbulbs in the ceiling.
That is pretty good size garage you have there. Is both 15 amp receptale is protected by GFCI ?


When I had some remodeling done I had the contractor install a 100 amp sub in the garage. So I have some sanity questions.
Did that contractor did actually use 4 conductor in subpanel and the ground and netural seperated ?? and what size conductor they ran to the subpanel ?

The sub panel is surface mounted. It is my intention to run surface mounted EMT for plugs that will be used for normal garage stuff (drills, table saw, crosscut). My thought is one 20amp breaker per wall. I am thinking of running the EMT to the ceiling and then drop down to the first plug box then plug box to plug box.

That will work fine unless you have a bit of few items going the same time then you may need two circuits per wall ( look below for more details)

One of the things I do notice is that the lights in the garage dim when my table saw first powers up. It is on a 115v plug should I rewire it to 240v?

It will be normal for the lights to be dimmed when you crank up the table saw espcally if you are on 15 amp circuit once you overload the saw by feeding too fast or cutting hard wood or greenwood that can trip the 15 amp breaker the 20 amp circuit will hold on little longer but most serious users will useally switch that on 240 volts due it can start better and typically either 15 amp 240 volt or 20 amp 240 volt circuit will be more than enough for that table saw.

Does my plan sound ok?
How many plugs per circuit should I run?
Do I need to run a separate ground or can the EMT be used as the ground?
I have looked into multi-wire branch circuits but there seems to several cons to doing that, thoughts?

It sound allright and I have done many time with EMT or PVC conduit but only sticky item is with PVC conduit make sure you bring out grounding conductor ( green wire ) but EMT it your call but If I were you I will do that for addtional safety protection in case the EMT fitting become loose or not have one locknut tighten down good.

Normally on workshop the excat numbers of receptales per circuit will varies a bit depending on the set up but useally no more than 4 receptale the most and make sure all of the 120 volt circuit have to be protected with GFCI.


Question about sub panel grounding. I read in a different post that the sub panel is suppose to have a #6 ground running to two 6-foot grounding rods outside. Is this a fact? (I already knew the ground and the neutral in the sub panel are to be isolated.

Not for attached garage. it is not needed due you are still attached to the building and again make sure the ground and netural complety isolated and no bonding screw or jumper screw on them as well.

But only one item it will come up is I useally put a subpanel I useally add a main breaker that serve as disconneting means ( useally cheaper to get one with main breaker than without espcally on 100 amp subpanel size )


Can I run an underground circuit (proper depth of course) to my shed which is about 30-feet away? I want to put a motion flood light and inside lights out there.

Oui you can as long a single circuit that is not a issue at all
Thank you,
Fred
All my answer in bleu however just remember 12 AWG is used for 20 amp circuits while 14 AWG is used with 15 amp circuits.

For surface mounted box normally I use the 4X4 boxes I will advoid the handi boxes ( I know I can use but the only time I use the is for the switch and that it ) and use the surface cover they will come few differnet conferation so you can have single plex or duplex or quadplex or single toggle or two toggle verison.

The conduit size most of the time 1/2 inch EMT will work fine and have conduit bender to bend the conduit to the shape where you want to go ( if you don't have them you can buy a preshaped EMT as well )

I hope that address your question for what ya planning to do.

Oh yeah when you mount the 4X4 boxes make sure hit the studs if you can that useally the best place to mount them without comming off the wall.

Merci,
Marc

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Old 11-25-2012, 11:30 AM   #3
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Wiring garage outlets from a subpanel


Thank you. That pretty much gives me the confidence to proceed to drawing it all up. I am still pondering which wall I will put my work bench.

I will have a look in the box later to verify the separation of the ground from the neutral.

I will run dedicated ground for the purposes you state. My dad says I always over build my stuff. I thought I would show him that I could do the minimum. I suspect I can just run the ground as a bare wire.

Thanks again.
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Old 11-25-2012, 05:53 PM   #4
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Wiring garage outlets from a subpanel


Hello all,

I looked closer today and an the sub panel is rated at 60 AMPS and is wired to the main panel with what it looks like to be #2 AWG.

The ground and neutral are isolated. The currently used circuits are for the dryer and washing machine just on the other side of the wall.

I could not confirm but it looks like they might have wired the washing machine with #14AWG to a 20 AMP breaker.

And yes this was installed with a permit. However, I was here for the inspection and the guy walked in looked around, discussed the finer details of finished carpentry and signed the paperwork and left. I said something to the contractor about how easy that seemed. The contractor's replay was something like, I have a good reputation with the county. I have to admit his finished carpentry is pretty darn good.

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Old 11-25-2012, 07:39 PM   #5
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Wiring garage outlets from a subpanel


The yellow cable typically is #12, and the orange is #10.
Run the conduit like you stated and use thwn wire, and don't forget the Gfci.


Scouts out!
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Old 11-25-2012, 07:50 PM   #6
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Wiring garage outlets from a subpanel


Jbfan, you sound like a fellow scout, I guess we'll meet at the Green.

I guess I failed scouting 101on this one and did not see the obvious, that being the wire colors are an indication of the wire guage.

Have you ever tried to do area recon with a CH-47? 8-)
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Old 11-25-2012, 07:53 PM   #7
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Wiring garage outlets from a subpanel


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Originally Posted by ACR_SCOUT View Post
Jbfan, you sound like a fellow scout, I guess we'll meet at the Green.

I guess I failed scouting 101on this one and did not see the obvious, that being the wire colors are an indication of the wire guage.

Have you ever tried to do area recon with a CH-47? 8-)
I've flown in one once, but we used jeeps, then hummers, and moved to bradley's.

I was a scout for a tow missle outfit.
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Old 11-25-2012, 08:00 PM   #8
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Wiring garage outlets from a subpanel


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I've flown in one once, but we used jeeps, then hummers, and moved to bradley's.

I was a scout for a tow missle outfit.
I was an Aeroscout pilot in OH-58C's for the 3rd ACR, Saber Squadron when they were at Bliss. Then OH-58A+'s in Korea, then I moved on to Chinooks. Talk about being able to move a lot of crap, really fast, really high, and really far.

I owe my arse to a Bradley scout troop and some A-10s. Thanks brother.
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Old 11-25-2012, 08:04 PM   #9
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Wiring garage outlets from a subpanel


I love the sound(soundlessness) of an A-10!
Nothing better to have your back!
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Old 11-25-2012, 08:11 PM   #10
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Wiring garage outlets from a subpanel


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I love the sound(soundlessness) of an A-10!
Nothing better to have your back!
A-10?? that what I call them Phacochère ( Warthog )

Merci,
Marc
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Old 11-25-2012, 08:14 PM   #11
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Wiring garage outlets from a subpanel


Quote:
Originally Posted by ACR_SCOUT View Post
Hello all,

I looked closer today and an the sub panel is rated at 60 AMPS and is wired to the main panel with what it looks like to be #2 AWG.

The ground and neutral are isolated. The currently used circuits are for the dryer and washing machine just on the other side of the wall.

I could not confirm but it looks like they might have wired the washing machine with #14AWG to a 20 AMP breaker.

And yes this was installed with a permit. However, I was here for the inspection and the guy walked in looked around, discussed the finer details of finished carpentry and signed the paperwork and left. I said something to the contractor about how easy that seemed. The contractor's replay was something like, I have a good reputation with the county. I have to admit his finished carpentry is pretty darn good.

As long your interal ( house ) breaker say 60 amp then it mean you have more than enough room to load it up to gills so you can have some pretty serious power tools running in this subpanel.

Note: look at the sticker either right or left side of the tub ( panel ) see if you have straight 12 space or 12-24 verison due this size of breaker box it is not too uncommon to see it listed to use the tandem breaker in case you want add more circuits.

Merci,
Marc
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Last edited by frenchelectrican; 11-25-2012 at 08:16 PM. Reason: add le note
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Old 11-25-2012, 08:15 PM   #12
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Wiring garage outlets from a subpanel


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A-10?? that what I call them Phacochère ( Warthog )

Merci,
Marc
That is correct Marc.
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Old 11-25-2012, 08:23 PM   #13
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Wiring garage outlets from a subpanel


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Originally Posted by ACR_SCOUT View Post
Jbfan, you sound like a fellow scout, I guess we'll meet at the Green.

I guess I failed scouting 101on this one and did not see the obvious, that being the wire colors are an indication of the wire guage.

See below for this one

Have you ever tried to do area recon with a CH-47? 8-)
On older NM cable they are not colour coded on sizewise until few years back they start using them to indentify the NM size .,, White - 14 AWG , Yellow - 12 AWG , Orange - 10 AWG , Black - #8 or #6 ( this one you have to watch it little closer on them ) so that is a common methold and currentaly just about every NM manufacter do use this patter beside the Canadain side they have two more items Red - it can be either 14 or 12 AWG but only have red et black conductor no white conductors at all this used by electrique heating or water pump or any item is straight 240 volt load, Bleu is used on AFCI circuits again 14 or 12 awg conductors show up.

Merci,
Marc
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Old 11-25-2012, 08:30 PM   #14
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Wiring garage outlets from a subpanel


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Originally Posted by frenchelectrican View Post
Note: look at the sticker either right or left side of the tub ( panel ) see if you have straight 12 space or 12-24 verison due this size of breaker box it is not too uncommon to see it listed to use the tandem breaker in case you want add more circuits.
WOW! I am not sure I want to put in enough work to fill up 24 circuits.

About the only simultaneous operations I could think of on on circuit is the refrigerator and maybe a small air compressor. I don't think that would overload anything, especially at 20 amps.
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Old 11-25-2012, 08:37 PM   #15
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Wiring garage outlets from a subpanel


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WOW! I am not sure I want to put in enough work to fill up 24 circuits.

About the only simultaneous operations I could think of on on circuit is the refrigerator and maybe a small air compressor. I don't think that would overload anything, especially at 20 amps.
Home side is nothing for us just try that on commercal side now you can see why we have go thru with that.

I just got one done few hours back 3 panels changed out ( mark that one up with nutty forklift driver )

Really I rather keep the fridge on seperated circuit if possible. ( you don't want to spoil your extra food plus ice cold Bière ( Beer )

Merci,
Marc

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