Go Back   DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum > Home Improvement > Electrical

CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY...IT'S FREE!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 03-07-2010, 08:44 PM   #31
Electrical Contractor
 
jbfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Newnan GA
Posts: 5,634
Share |
Default

Wiring Garage for 220


Cutting the drywal is easy.
Figure out where the studs on each side of the panel are located, use a level and mark the studs on each side.
You want to cut the drywall in the middle of the stud, then cut a level line across to remove the drywall.
Cut with a knife, and you will be well away from the main power cable.
After you are finished, then you can screww the drywall back in place, and tape and mud it.
You can do the same thing for the other side of the room.

__________________
Yes I am a Pirate, 200 years too late. "Jimmy Buffett"
jbfan is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to jbfan For This Useful Post:
Klawman (03-08-2010)
Old 03-08-2010, 12:20 AM   #32
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Orange County, California
Posts: 574
Default

Wiring Garage for 220


Quote:
Originally Posted by jbfan View Post
Cutting the drywal is easy.
Figure out where the studs on each side of the panel are located, use a level and mark the studs on each side.
You want to cut the drywall in the middle of the stud, then cut a level line across to remove the drywall.
Cut with a knife, and you will be well away from the main power cable.
After you are finished, then you can screww the drywall back in place, and tape and mud it.
You can do the same thing for the other side of the room.
Thanks jbfan. Utility knife sounds good, Cut just deep enough to penetrate the sheet rock. If possible will drop by the city and check requirements for the panel's location, as well as a question scuba_dave once raised, which was that one inspector required a 60 A disconnect at the sub-panel and wouldn't sign off on where the feeders ran from a 60 A breaker on the main.
Klawman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2010, 06:36 AM   #33
Electrical Contractor
 
jbfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Newnan GA
Posts: 5,634
Default

Wiring Garage for 220


The 100 amp main breaker in the subpanel will be used as a disconnect, because the 60 amp breaker in the main will protect it.
__________________
Yes I am a Pirate, 200 years too late. "Jimmy Buffett"
jbfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2010, 07:15 AM   #34
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: South of Boston, MA
Posts: 17,248
Default

Wiring Garage for 220


Quote:
Originally Posted by Klawman View Post
If possible will drop by the city and check requirements for the panel's location, as well as a question scuba_dave once raised, which was that one inspector required a 60 A disconnect at the sub-panel and wouldn't sign off on where the feeders ran from a 60 A breaker on the main.

As Joed said the 60a feed/100a disconnect is fine

If I remember correctly the problem the other person had is that they had the 100a disconnect & a 40a feed
The Inspector wanted a min 60a feed.....which meant changing the wires out
Scuba_Dave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2010, 10:39 AM   #35
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Orange County, California
Posts: 574
Default

Wiring Garage for 220


Quote:
Originally Posted by Scuba_Dave View Post
As Joed said the 60a feed/100a disconnect is fine

If I remember correctly the problem the other person had is that they had the 100a disconnect & a 40a feed
The Inspector wanted a min 60a feed.....which meant changing the wires out
Went back and checked earlier on this thread. I misunderstood what you said, which was the problem was that the feed was only a 40a and one inspector in some jurisdiction interpreted code to reauire a 60a disconnect. jbfan reminded you back then that the issue was limited to a detached building so the issue doesn't apply to my attached garage.
You were thinking detached.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jbfan View Post
The 100 amp main breaker in the subpanel will be used as a disconnect, because the 60 amp breaker in the main will protect it.
Based on what you mentioned earlier, see the reply just posted to Scuba_Dave's immediate post, which I read as essentially saying the same as you. Also, as you earlier wrote, the 60a disconnect requirement is limited to detached structures.

Thanks

Went by the City Building Division this morning. Determined that the City follows the California Electric Code and it adopts the 2005 NEC. The city of Lake Forest, CA, will allow me to do the sub-panel myself and I may locate the panel on the side of the Garage since they assume I won't be parking in the garage and blocking access to the panel. I think I will still locate where it won't be blocked should cars be parked in it, which may be more convenient for an eventual owner. He doesn't need me to submit a plan to pull a permit. Probably because due to you the members of the DIY chatroom I sounded as though I knew what to do.
Klawman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2010, 03:40 PM   #36
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Orange County, California
Posts: 574
Default

Wiring Garage for 220


I would appreciate your input on where to locate the sub panel and have tried to attach a diagram sans an actual circuit map to explain what I am doing.

My bench will be moved from the house wall to where it is dawn in. The 125A sub panel should be nest to the new bench location, which is on the opposite side of the garage from the 200 A service panel. I only intend to wire the sub for a 60 A feed.

First am I correct that the hot legs of the feed should be #6? Can the neural or ground be a smaller and what size?

I plan non 2 dedicated 240 outlets, lights as indicated on their separate 3 14 15A line, and 20A duplex receptacles around the perimeter walls. Should I use two separate circuits and alternate running them to outlets to lessen the chance of an overload?

The 3 fluorescents across the middle are hung from a large beam supporting the exterior wall of the second floor. The wall light by the door into the house is on a house circuit. I want to leave it there so it would be on if the main garage lighting circuit fails.

I am not concerned with an electric space heater in this climate zone.

This is not a working shop that will see heavy use but light use by a homeowner.

What has to be CFCI protected? All receptacles either 120 or 240?

Unless I am missing something, my big decision is on which wall to place the sub panel, which is why I also need to figure the size and type of wiring. If it is on the inside of the wall with the service panel on its exterior, I will only need a few feet of feeder. If I locate on the far side, that is at least another 35 feet of feeder. I am probably going to use emt and avoid fishing the lines.

One reason there aren't any lights in the middle of the front of the garage is the roll up garage doors. There should be sufficient light over the work bench area and most of the time if I am working in the garage it is daylight and I have the doors up.

SP1 on the diagram is where the panel goes if I mount it on the wall with the master. SP2 is where it "should" go. The dotted line indicates the route the feeder would take to get to SP2.

Everything comes down to cost and I want to be penny wise but not pound foolish.
Attached Images
 
Klawman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-2010, 03:01 PM   #37
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Orange County, California
Posts: 574
Default

Wiring Garage for 220


I was pricing materials at the HD and a guy that was supposed to know electrical was telling me I could use #8 AWG for a 60 Amp feed to my sub panel, when I told him I thought I needed #6.

Also, I told him I wanted to pull it through 1/2" emt for attached garage's sub panel, when and he suggested nb-8. Isn't pulling nb through conduit a violation. I think somewhere I saw that it was prohibited since insulation could tear.
Klawman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-2010, 03:09 PM   #38
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: South of Boston, MA
Posts: 17,248
Default

Wiring Garage for 220


NMB can be in conduit but you need a much a larger conduit
It also can't be in any area where it is subject to being wet
Anything buried is considered a wet location
#8 cable (NMB) will only get you 40a
#8 THHN/THWN will only get you 50a

Scuba_Dave is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Scuba_Dave For This Useful Post:
Klawman (03-14-2010)
Old 03-14-2010, 03:26 PM   #39
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Orange County, California
Posts: 574
Default

Wiring Garage for 220


Quote:
Originally Posted by Scuba_Dave View Post
NMB can be in conduit but you need a much a larger conduit
It also can't be in any area where it is subject to being wet
Anything buried is considered a wet location
#8 cable (NMB) will only get you 40a
#8 THHN/THWN will only get you 50a
Thanks. I also learned to use the conduit fill calculator you posted about on another thread. Mine will be inside and dry.
Klawman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-2010, 03:36 PM   #40
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: South of Boston, MA
Posts: 17,248
Default

Wiring Garage for 220


As an example 6-3 cable has a diameter of .612 inches & would need 1" conduit
Individual #6 wires & a #8 ground would only need 3/4"
Not a huge difference, but pulling cable thru conduit can be a pain

My run was over 100', so I picked up some wire lube which makes pulling the wire easier
Scuba_Dave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-2010, 03:48 PM   #41
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Orange County, California
Posts: 574
Default

Wiring Garage for 220


Quote:
Originally Posted by Scuba_Dave View Post
As an example 6-3 cable has a diameter of .612 inches & would need 1" conduit
Individual #6 wires & a #8 ground would only need 3/4"...not a huge difference
Not a huge difference, but pulling cable thru conduit can be a pain

My run was over 100', so I picked up some wire lube which makes pulling teh wire easier
Yeah. I pulled thhn just a few feet for lights, which was relatively easy. I expect #6 to be a whole different story.
Klawman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-2010, 09:44 PM   #42
Electrical Contractor
 
jbfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Newnan GA
Posts: 5,634
Default

Wiring Garage for 220


There you go listening to the HD guy again.
__________________
Yes I am a Pirate, 200 years too late. "Jimmy Buffett"
jbfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-2010, 10:36 PM   #43
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Orange County, California
Posts: 574
Default

Wiring Garage for 220


Quote:
Originally Posted by jbfan View Post
There you go listening to the HD guy again.
"Lstening" as in "hearing" but not "believing". I only posted what he volunteered to demonstrate how poor the quality of the info passed out at HD can be.

A neighbor tells me that code requires a 30A dedicated receptacle next to the water heater platform, even though you have a gas water tank.

His house has one, but mine does not, even though they are the same model built in the same phase back in 1991. We are in California.

I noticed that his outlet isn't a duplex and if memory serves me it has a neutral slot that looks like a letter "T" with the base of the "T" pointed to the edge of the receptacle. I told him I believe it is a 20A receptacle and he says he probed it and it measured 30A. Does it sound like his house was wired for a water heater but with the a 20A receptacle on a line controlled by a 30A breaker? I have no idea if he has 12 AWG or 10, but I bet it is only 12.

Whatever he has, if I am required to have a dedicated electric water heater line I want to add it while I am doing the rest of the garage. If I am not required by code, I may still add it if I can stay within budget.

Is the line required? Thanks in advance.
Klawman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2010, 08:25 PM   #44
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: South of Boston, MA
Posts: 17,248
Default

Wiring Garage for 220


Quote:
Originally Posted by Klawman View Post
A neighbor tells me that code requires a 30A dedicated receptacle next to the water heater platform, even though you have a gas water tank.

His house has one, but mine does not, even though they are the same model built in the same phase back in 1991. We are in California.

Whatever he has, if I am required to have a dedicated electric water heater line I want to add it while I am doing the rest of the garage. If I am not required by code, I may still add it if I can stay within budget.

Is the line required? Thanks in advance.
Is your neighbor an electrician ? Inspector ?
Did he give you a Code reference ?
Scuba_Dave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2010, 09:17 PM   #45
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Orange County, California
Posts: 574
Default

Wiring Garage for 220


Quote:
Originally Posted by Scuba_Dave View Post
Is your neighbor an electrician ? Inspector ?
Did he give you a Code reference ?
I wouldn't call him an electrician, but he has an AA in electrical engineering and all the years I have known him he has been a manufacturer's rep for electrical equipment manufacturers such as GE, Southwire, and Greenlee. When it comes to basic electrical work, I wonder if he is up on things.

I looked in the 2008 code you linked online and saw nothing about a line being required for a Water Tank. I only saw the section requiring a single 110V 15A or 20A receptacle.

Klawman is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
determine rating, service panel


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Wiring Main-Breaker Box in Detached Garage wstribl Electrical 15 05-11-2013 05:15 PM
wiring 100A to detached garage snowman Electrical 4 11-28-2009 04:53 PM
Garage Wiring issues jimmyfloyd Electrical 20 06-08-2009 02:57 PM
Wiring a Shed and Garage abedj Electrical 1 05-08-2009 11:09 AM
Critique my wiring plan for my garage tigereye Electrical 10 03-24-2009 09:55 PM




Top of Page | View New Posts

Copyright © 2003-2014 Escalate Media. All Rights Reserved.