Go Back   DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum > Home Improvement > Electrical

CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY...IT'S FREE!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 04-20-2013, 10:19 PM   #16
Retired from the grind
 
gregzoll's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Midwest - Central Illinois
Posts: 13,733
Share |
Default

wiring a distant pump


It is not a price quote. It is a arbitrary number, going with the largest sized cable that you have to run, which would be the 2/0. As for running to the garage, yes I would suggest using conduit from the house to the garage, so later on if ever have a problem, then you can pull new cable through.

Only problem is, the larger the cable, the harder it is to pull through conduit, and usually have to use a winch or ratchet puller, to pull the rope, attached to the cables, to get them through. Also have to have at least a 5 gallon bucket of pull grease. Not the most fun thing to do in life.

Once you get to the garage, then you can pull to the pump, but still would need a drawing of your land, showing distance from house to garage, then garage to pond, or place that the pump will be, along with service at the house, and service you plan on putting in place at the garage.

Use the calculator link I posted, it will give you an idea of what is the best route to go with, determined on the distance from the garage, if less than from the house.

__________________
Ren: Now listen, Cadet. I've got a job for you. See this button? Ren: Don't touch it! It's the History Eraser button, you fool! Stimpy: So what'll happen? Ren: That's just it. We don't know. Maybe something bad, maybe something good. I guess we'll never know, 'cause you're going to guard it. You won't touch it, will you?
gregzoll is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2013, 10:20 PM   #17
Newbie
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: rural North Dakota
Posts: 9
Default

wiring a distant pump


Quote:
Originally Posted by gregzoll View Post
You can use the cartridge style fuses, which are used for heavy loads, but the old Edison fuses, you cannot. Even with Cartridge fuses, people place 1/2" or 3/8" copper pipe with the ends flattened in the fuse holder. With the old Edison's, people would just place a Penny in the socket, or even some have placed light bulbs in place of a fuse.

It is not that they no longer can be used, it is just that the code has changed over the years, and because breakers have a quicker trip response than fuses, is why you have seen the change over the years.
Now I understand. People will do some stupid things. I think all of my plumbing, septic and electrical was installed by some old farmer with a backhoe but no knowledge of any of those things. I have found some pretty weird stuff here that needs to be addressed. That's why I am on this forum - I want to be able to do some things on my own, but I want them done safely. I'm not as concerned about current code - just that it be safe. Of course, I understand that you guys can't actually recommend things that don't meet code.
Dave J is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2013, 10:41 PM   #18
Electrical Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 725
Default

wiring a distant pump


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave J
. Of course, I understand that you guys can't actually recommend things that don't meet code.
Bingo. There are lots of set ups that may function, and may even be reasonably safe, that will not meet code for one reason or another.
Kyle_in_rure is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2013, 11:12 PM   #19
Retired from the grind
 
gregzoll's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Midwest - Central Illinois
Posts: 13,733
Default

wiring a distant pump


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave J View Post
Now I understand. People will do some stupid things. I think all of my plumbing, septic and electrical was installed by some old farmer with a backhoe but no knowledge of any of those things. I have found some pretty weird stuff here that needs to be addressed. That's why I am on this forum - I want to be able to do some things on my own, but I want them done safely. I'm not as concerned about current code - just that it be safe. Of course, I understand that you guys can't actually recommend things that don't meet code.
No, we just bust balls about it, and then there are some on here that take it too far to the extreme, when it comes to ball busting.

If you can use a pencil and paper, draw your land drawing out that way, with distances, which if you can get the info from your county building, they may show the info. Otherwise, get a buddy or kid and have them help you use a hundred foot tape to measure.

After you draw out the land sketch, just scan it into your computer if you have a all-in-printer as a jpg and upload, by clicking the "Manage Attachments", you can then attach the drawing.

Now if you have a iPhone or Android, there is actually some decent apps like the MotionX GPS app, which is a really nice app http://gps.motionx.com/iphone/overview/ to use to mark where the house is, garage, and where the pump will be. At times, technology does come in handy for stuff, other than playing games and listening to music.
__________________
Ren: Now listen, Cadet. I've got a job for you. See this button? Ren: Don't touch it! It's the History Eraser button, you fool! Stimpy: So what'll happen? Ren: That's just it. We don't know. Maybe something bad, maybe something good. I guess we'll never know, 'cause you're going to guard it. You won't touch it, will you?
gregzoll is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2013, 07:39 AM   #20
E2 Electrician
 
stickboy1375's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Litchfield, CT
Posts: 4,632
Default

wiring a distant pump


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave J View Post

If that is acceptable, is it also acceptable to simply ground the remote box to earth instead of including a ground wire with the buried wire as long as the source is also grounded to earth? Or is a ground wire always required in any wiring on the load side of the main box?
You MUST run a separate ground wire!
stickboy1375 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to stickboy1375 For This Useful Post:
Dave J (04-21-2013)
Old 04-21-2013, 07:15 PM   #21
Newbie
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: rural North Dakota
Posts: 9
Default

wiring a distant pump


Quote:
Originally Posted by stickboy1375 View Post
You MUST run a separate ground wire!
Just out of curiosity, if both ends are grounded to earth, why is the ground wire necessary? Aren't they bonded to each other by earth? Is this truly a safety issue, or just a redundancy in the code?
Dave J is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2013, 07:19 PM   #22
E2 Electrician
 
stickboy1375's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Litchfield, CT
Posts: 4,632
Default

wiring a distant pump


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave J View Post
Just out of curiosity, if both ends are grounded to earth, why is the ground wire necessary? Aren't they bonded to each other by earth? Is this truly a safety issue, or just a redundancy in the code?
Biggest misunderstood item in the Electrical field... the EARTH plays NO role in an electrical system and functionality of the ground fault protection.
stickboy1375 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2013, 07:47 PM   #23
Retired from the grind
 
gregzoll's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Midwest - Central Illinois
Posts: 13,733
Default

wiring a distant pump


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave J View Post
Just out of curiosity, if both ends are grounded to earth, why is the ground wire necessary? Aren't they bonded to each other by earth? Is this truly a safety issue, or just a redundancy in the code?
You need a Hot, Neutral, and Ground for equipment like pumps to work properly. If you do not have a ground between it and the panel, then you create what is called a "Floating" ground, and that in itself becomes a safety issue. Unless the pump is 120v/240v, it would need all four wires, otherwise, if it is just 240vAC, it is just three wires.

As for a sub-panel, you need two hots, a neutral and a ground between them, otherwise it will not work, and would be a safety issue.

I really hope you do not work on electric or repair anything electrical.
__________________
Ren: Now listen, Cadet. I've got a job for you. See this button? Ren: Don't touch it! It's the History Eraser button, you fool! Stimpy: So what'll happen? Ren: That's just it. We don't know. Maybe something bad, maybe something good. I guess we'll never know, 'cause you're going to guard it. You won't touch it, will you?
gregzoll is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2013, 08:57 PM   #24
Semi-Pro Electro-Geek
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Arizona, USA
Posts: 2,521
Default

wiring a distant pump


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave J View Post
Aren't they bonded to each other by earth?
The earth doesn't do any bonding. It's not very conductive. Grounding electrodes serve a few useful purposes, but protection from ground faults is NOT one of them. Grounding electrodes play no role whatsoever in protecting from ground faults. Ground faults are protected against with BONDING, which is a low-resistance metallic path from the equipment back to the utility neutral. The only way a breaker will trip and clear a ground fault is if the equipment is BONDED, not just "grounded". Confusingly, the wire that does the bonding is called the "equipment grounding conductor" or "ground wire". But it's main function has little to do with connection to the actual earth, and everything to do with connection to the utility neutral at the service entrance. That's why you need a separate grounding conductor. Without it, having a grounding rod at the distant equipment is WORSE than nothing, because a ground fault will electrify that rod and cause an even bigger hazard.

__________________
I am a lawyer, but not your lawyer. And who cares anyways? We're here to talk construction. This is DIY advice, not legal advice.
mpoulton is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to mpoulton For This Useful Post:
stickboy1375 (04-21-2013)
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Well Pump wiring question gfreely232 Electrical 24 04-16-2012 03:13 PM
Power 120V Pump from a 240V circuit RoberTX Electrical 26 07-05-2011 11:43 PM
Swimming Pool Pump & Salt Water Ctlr Wiring brianr Electrical 1 06-27-2011 06:02 AM
Which diagram to use on Lenox Thermostat wiring setup? Heat Pump Lenox techs needed twilightcall HVAC 1 08-13-2008 11:49 AM
Wiring 240v pump to generator - URGENT Benchr Electrical 4 12-19-2006 05:50 PM




Top of Page | View New Posts

Copyright © 2003-2014 Escalate Media. All Rights Reserved.