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Old 08-15-2012, 11:35 PM   #1
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Wiring Disconnect Sub-panel


Please correct me where I am wrong.

I am adding a disconnect sub-panel in to my Work Shed and could use some recommendations.

This will be our 3rd winter in this house.
Last winter, I tripped the circuits several times while running to many machines at the same time. (eg. table saw, shop-vac, electric radiant heaters, lights etc etc.)
This would cause me to have to go inside the house, and reset the circuit on the main breaker panel / fuse box, or call the wife on her cell phone and ask her to do it.
Both of these are time consuming and inconvenient.

So, I recently purchased this Siemens LFC211N 120v/240v 30A General Duty Plug Fuse Type, Enclosed Switch box (Photo's Below)

From the house / main breaker panel, the line is a 14/3 plastic/rubber coated metal clad cable which is buried from the house to the shed.

The cable is then just attached to a receptacle box inside the work shed.

From there a single 14/2 Romex is strung along the rafters to another receptacle box.
From there, multiple connections have been made. (again, all using 14/2)

There was 1 receptacle and 1 lampholder at that location / wall on the inside of the work shed, and a receptacle and outdoor lampholder operated by a switch outside the work shed, along the side wall.
(The lamp holder inside used to be on a pull chain, but I had it recently put on a switch.)

From the 14/3, only the ground, neutral and 1 hot was in use, the 2nd hot was just capped.

What I would like to do, is separate the outdoor connections from the indoor connections via the LFC211N.
Also, this would allow me to interrupt the power as needed, and have the fuse / circuit disengage in the work shed, rather than in the house.
(I have also purchased 2x 15A mini-breaker fuses to use in this box)

Unfortunately, my friend the electrician can not be around to help for some time, so I thought I'd try to do this one myself.
(I am a sub-contractor by trade and have the mechanical aptitude for any kind of mechanical, construction and even plumbing work, I am also an avid blacksmith, I just do not the technical knowledge of home electrical wiring.)

Please correct me where I am wrong.
(refer to the images below first)

I can see where it is clearly marked, the line goes in from the top, and the loads will exit out the bottom.
The Line Neutral gets connected on the first, top screw on the bottom left of the fuse box, also, the load neutrals will also be connected there on the 2 bottom screws.
The Grounds will be properly attached to the shell of the box and, each of the Hots will be connected to either of the top screws of the fuse panel, and again the load hots will also be connected below the fuses.

From there, each of the 2 14/2 Romex will run to their respective locations.
The 1st line to stay inside will run to the receptacle box and then split to the indoor lampholder & switch,
The 2nd line that will go to the outdoor receptacle, lampholder & switch will remain the same, other than the line will now come from the LFC211N directly.




Please correct me where or if I am wrong.

Any additional recommendations would be greatly appreciated.




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Last edited by Croe; 08-15-2012 at 11:43 PM. Reason: Typo'd a few words here n there :)
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Old 08-16-2012, 12:27 AM   #2
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Wiring Disconnect Sub-panel


I've just got to ask, why would you ever buy a fuse box instead of breakers?

Why just two circuts?
Looks to me your going to end up back were you started from, being under powered and no room for adding anything trying to do it that way.

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Old 08-16-2012, 08:01 AM   #3
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Wiring Disconnect Sub-panel


.. is that the correct way to do the wiring though?
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Old 08-16-2012, 08:21 AM   #4
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Wiring Disconnect Sub-panel


While you would be able to have the use of a second 15 amp circuit by using the capped off leg, the problem is you will still have too much load on too small a circuit.
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Old 08-16-2012, 09:03 AM   #5
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Wiring Disconnect Sub-panel


Not sure why you would want to use a $28 fused safety switch and 2 $7 mini-breakers when a $12 2 space load center and 2 $4 circuit breakers is cheaper and certainly more modern

http://www.homedepot.com/Electrical-...1#.UCzuIKBzCjI


http://www.homedepot.com/Electrical-...1#.UCzum6BzCjI

BTW, in either case there is no guarantee that the breaker in the garage will trip before the one in the house.
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Old 08-17-2012, 01:53 AM   #6
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Wiring Disconnect Sub-panel


Quote:
Originally Posted by Croe View Post
Please correct me where I am wrong.

I am adding a disconnect sub-panel in to my Work Shed and could use some recommendations.

This will be our 3rd winter in this house.
Last winter, I tripped the circuits several times while running to many machines at the same time. (eg. table saw, shop-vac, electric radiant heaters, lights etc etc.)
This would cause me to have to go inside the house, and reset the circuit on the main breaker panel / fuse box, or call the wife on her cell phone and ask her to do it.
Both of these are time consuming and inconvenient.

I am sure you are aware with # 14 gauge conductors you are only limited to 15 amps max.

Once you turn on the table saw and couple lights on that is pretty much on borderline to get tripped unless you overload the tablesaw then no question asked you will trip the breaker easy. The same thing with heater as well.



So, I recently purchased this Siemens LFC211N 120v/240v 30A General Duty Plug Fuse Type, Enclosed Switch box (Photo's Below)

From the house / main breaker panel, the line is a 14/3 plastic/rubber coated metal clad cable which is buried from the house to the shed.

Can you take a photo of this cable ? unless you are in Canada then I know it is Teck cable ( only they are approved if marked for direct buiral )

The cable is then just attached to a receptacle box inside the work shed.

From there a single 14/2 Romex is strung along the rafters to another receptacle box.
From there, multiple connections have been made. (again, all using 14/2)

There was 1 receptacle and 1 lampholder at that location / wall on the inside of the work shed, and a receptacle and outdoor lampholder operated by a switch outside the work shed, along the side wall.
(The lamp holder inside used to be on a pull chain, but I had it recently put on a switch.)

From the 14/3, only the ground, neutral and 1 hot was in use, the 2nd hot was just capped.

What I would like to do, is separate the outdoor connections from the indoor connections via the LFC211N.
Also, this would allow me to interrupt the power as needed, and have the fuse / circuit disengage in the work shed, rather than in the house.
(I have also purchased 2x 15A mini-breaker fuses to use in this box)

Unfortunately, my friend the electrician can not be around to help for some time, so I thought I'd try to do this one myself.
(I am a sub-contractor by trade and have the mechanical aptitude for any kind of mechanical, construction and even plumbing work, I am also an avid blacksmith, I just do not the technical knowledge of home electrical wiring.)

Please correct me where I am wrong.
(refer to the images below first)

I can see where it is clearly marked, the line goes in from the top, and the loads will exit out the bottom.
The Line Neutral gets connected on the first, top screw on the bottom left of the fuse box, also, the load neutrals will also be connected there on the 2 bottom screws.
The Grounds will be properly attached to the shell of the box and, each of the Hots will be connected to either of the top screws of the fuse panel, and again the load hots will also be connected below the fuses.

From there, each of the 2 14/2 Romex will run to their respective locations.
The 1st line to stay inside will run to the receptacle box and then split to the indoor lampholder & switch,
The 2nd line that will go to the outdoor receptacle, lampholder & switch will remain the same, other than the line will now come from the LFC211N directly.




Please correct me where or if I am wrong.

Any additional recommendations would be greatly appreciated.




First of all my comment above in the qoute area is bleu then second thing is how far is the shed to the house.

You may want to bury a new cable with much larger in sizewise so you can handle more load without tripping the breaker I have done few of them and it is not too uncommon to see someone run 50 or 60 amp circuit to the shed but there are couple rules you will have to follow with it. ( there are few differnt verison of NEC or CEC code if you are in USA or Canada )

And can use larger subpanel instead of two plug fuse as you posted I know some case you may not like to heard the cost but it will be justifed once you relized the amout of power tools and stuff you have in there.

There is alot of subpanel topic in the fourm so there are few differnt way to do this but of course you will have to keep the netural and ground seperated at the subpanel. plus you will sink two ground rods if you do go this route.

If you have more question just holler one of us will answer it.

Merci,.
Marc
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Old 08-21-2012, 11:38 AM   #7
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Wiring Disconnect Sub-panel


Quote:
Originally Posted by rjniles View Post
Not sure why you would want to use a $28 fused safety switch and 2 $7 mini-breakers when a $12 2 space load center and 2 $4 circuit breakers is cheaper and certainly more modern

http://www.homedepot.com/Electrical-...1#.UCzuIKBzCjI

BTW, in either case there is no guarantee that the breaker in the garage will trip before the one in the house.

Thanks but,these listing are for Home Depot.COM , not Home Depot.CA, my local Home Depot does Not Carry these products up here, as a matter of fact, (and I don't know if this is because I am in Ontario, Canada) they do Not carry any Circuit breaker box's under 60A, only Plug Fuse box's. (I also checked every other Hardware, Contractor and Electrical supply outlets (retail, suppliers and distributors) in my area with the same results. Going to have to order one online if I don't find a used one @ a restore or somewhere.
Thanks for the suggestion though.
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Old 08-21-2012, 11:53 AM   #8
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Wiring Disconnect Sub-panel


Quote:
Originally Posted by frenchelectrican View Post
Can you take a photo of this cable ? unless you are in Canada then I know it is Teck cable ( only they are approved if marked for direct buiral )
The printing on the outer jacket reads:

NEXANS FIREX-II 10 AWC/30 TECK90 XLPE CSA LL19376 F600V HL FT4 AG14

http://www.nexans.ca/eservice/Canada...LPE_600_V.html

I have so far completed this project, the power has been turned back on since yesterday, and the work shed has not burnt down .
I have had lights, radio and drill/grinder operational.

I did have to revert to installing the LFC211N as I could not find anything else locally, and until I can find a circuit breaker box, it will have to do.
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Old 08-21-2012, 11:56 AM   #9
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Wiring Disconnect Sub-panel


Quote:
Originally Posted by Croe View Post
Thanks but,these listing are for Home Depot.COM , not Home Depot.CA, my local Home Depot does Not Carry these products up here, as a matter of fact, (and I don't know if this is because I am in Ontario, Canada) they do Not carry any Circuit breaker box's under 60A, only Plug Fuse box's. (I also checked every other Hardware, Contractor and Electrical supply outlets (retail, suppliers and distributors) in my area with the same results. Going to have to order one online if I don't find a used one @ a restore or somewhere.
Thanks for the suggestion though.
Here is a panel you could use from the HD Canada site. Do not worry about the 125 Amp rating, that is a maximum.
http://www.homedepot.ca/product/125a...ircuits/943193

BTW, if you add your location to your signature line, it get's you better answers.
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Old 08-21-2012, 12:03 PM   #10
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Home dept Canada sells 30a breaker boxes. I'm suprised they had fuse boxes. I didn't think any new work was allowed to be fuses anymore
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Old 08-21-2012, 12:40 PM   #11
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FYI - Something like this is a "quality of life" issue with me.

Not having adequate power to the shed would be a daily frustration, so taking the time and expense to run a new larger line and install a proper breaker panel is well worth it!

It is nice to have things work as they should!

Same thing with old worn out outlets where you need to "wiggle" the plug to get it to work - I replace the outlet, then no more problems.

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