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Old 01-17-2008, 09:39 PM   #1
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Wiring Diagram - Will this work?


I have two circuits I want to wire in my sunroom. I am embedding two images.
Does the 15 Amp Lighting circuit (the first image) seem kosher?

The second circuit will provide a number of recs on one wall for my Dear Husband's home theater system and also the exterior lights. The lights are positioned at exterior doors. What is the best way to add the second set of lights (arrow) so that the switches would control all lights.

Lastly, can I SAFELY run the wire for the lights without installing them and still pass inspection? I am thinking that budget-wise buying two lights (one for each door) is currently most reasonable. However, I definitely want all four in the future. Can I run cable for anticipated fixtures while I have the ceiling open? What is the best way to accomplish this - should I just buy some cheap fixtures for the time being?

Thanks in advance. I am reading "wiring simplified" and keep dreaming about switches and junction boxes. LFW
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Wiring Diagram - Will this work?-sunroom-wiring-lighting-circuit.jpg   Wiring Diagram - Will this work?-sunroom-av-circuit.jpg  


Last edited by Leah Frances; 01-17-2008 at 09:40 PM. Reason: Forgot to add images
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Old 01-18-2008, 01:53 AM   #2
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Wiring Diagram - Will this work?


Your lighting is wrong.

In the first diagram, the circuit for the 3way switches (light(s) controled in two locations) run the power to one switchbox, the "switch leg" (cable going to the light) from the other and a 3 wire cable between them.

In the second diagram you need to go from outlet to outlet THEN to the switch box. Then from the switch box to the light.


The switch box has to have power in it. The switch sends the power (thru the switch leg) to the light or shuts it off.

capice?

You can put blank covers on the jboxes or simply install a $3 fixture.


Last edited by 220/221; 01-18-2008 at 01:57 AM.
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Old 01-18-2008, 10:40 AM   #3
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Wiring Diagram - Will this work?


Just a few questions to add to 221's response.

Are these new branch circuits coming from the main panel or are you tapping an existing branch circuit to power the sun room?

In the first image is the JB necessary?

Can you get the source all the way to the double gang switch box and make your splices and split for the receptacles in the switch box?.... Or run the source to the first receptacle box then run a power cable from the receptacle box to the switch box. Not a huge deal but cleans things up a bit.

In the second image I notice you have some quadplexes on each end of some duplex receptacles. If this is for a home entertainment center of any value you will need surge protection. So if your trying to plug all the power cords into the wall you might be forgetting that issue. You only need duplexes which will have surge protectors plugged into them and your power cords plugged into the surge protectors. Maybe you could explain that design of yours to us as to the reason for the quadplexes? Or maybe you have whole house surge protection in the main panel?

Also in the second diagram do you want all four lights on a 3-way circuit...ie all four controlled at the same time from either switch? Or do you want independent control of the lights over each door using single pole switches?

Last edited by Stubbie; 01-18-2008 at 10:44 AM.
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Old 01-18-2008, 02:37 PM   #4
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Wiring Diagram - Will this work?


OK fellas. 220/221 and Stubbie

- I get it, power to one switch, switch leg from the other, and three wire cable between them. How does this look?

So I have pulled two circuits out of this room during demo (one K&T one early NM with no ground - parading as grounded - and FALLING APART). I am essentially starting from scratch with the two circuits - from breaker on down.

The source comes in a crawl space. To get power to the switch I have to run up through the 'open wall' to the ceiling and down to the switch through a pre-existing chase in the 'paneled wall'.

I thought I would use the junction box because to get from the switch to the rec I have to run power back up to the ceiling, down the open wall into the crawlspace and then back up into a different chase for the rec. I thought I would bring the source into the JBox in the crawlspace, and then split it. I know this is more information than you had, but is it still advisable to skip the JBox and run the power from rec to switch or vice versa?

In diagram two I picked quad-plexes because I would love to eliminate surge protector strips in favor of adding protection at the main. This is because I will eventually have components in built-ins and the less bulk and wiring confined in a cabinet, the less cooling I have to worry about. I have a ton of recs on that wall anticipating future growth in Dear Husband's home stereo ambitions.

Now that I think about it, I should run stereo wire while I have things open.

Clearly, I am a novice at this, and since I am getting the opportunity to do this 'from scratch' I want to DO IT RIGHT. This is my first project in rewiring my new 1805 Farmhouse. I am loving the process of 'uncovering' the house - you should see the size of the hornet's nest I found next to the old K&T for one of the lights!

I've spent a lot of hours reading the forum, and I really appreciate the expertise you two (and many others) are so willing to share.
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Old 01-18-2008, 03:43 PM   #5
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Wiring Diagram - Will this work?


Yep looks much better and gets the neutral at the switch boxes. Keep the junction boxes if it makes things easier for you but remember to leave them accessible. If your using whole house surge protection at the main (I do) then those quadplexes are fine. Yep get your speaker wire ran....

I'm not sure what your showing in the one diagram with two cables between the 2 lights can you explain that?

How were you wanting the switching arrangement for the lights over those doors?

In the last diagram you put up is everything on there on the same 15 amp circuit? It appears fine unless you plan on putting any space heating or other large loads on the receptacles. If so I'd be sure to run a 20 amp circuit or a 15 for lights and another 20 amp for the receptacles.

Stubbie

Last edited by Stubbie; 01-18-2008 at 03:49 PM.
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Old 01-18-2008, 06:20 PM   #6
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Wiring Diagram - Will this work?


The two wires between two lights is a mistake.

I want the switches at the doors to control all four exterior lights.

I think I probably need the lighting circuit on 20A. Is there any sincere benefit to separating the lights and recs onto different circuits. I have plenty of capacity, but I have lots of other rooms to re-wire and some dedicated appliance circuits (fish tank, ac units) to run. So I need to keep a little bit of an eye to the future.

Thanks again.

LFW
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Old 01-18-2008, 07:10 PM   #7
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Wiring Diagram - Will this work?


Ummm... not really any great benefit other than there won't be any notice of dimming if the lights are on a different circuit when a space heater would power on or a vacuum sweeper and to some degree you won't be left in the dark if a breaker trips due to a fault at a receptacle. All small things. There are some who would say receptacles should be on 20 amp circuits but there are many many receptacles on 15 amp branch circuits.

Do the lights over the doors the same as the others. Come off the quadplex with a cable to the switch then 3 wire to the other switch then from it to the lights with a 2 wire and ground cable.
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Old 01-18-2008, 08:08 PM   #8
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Wiring Diagram - Will this work?


Quote:
Originally Posted by 220/221 View Post
Your lighting is wrong.

In the first diagram, the circuit for the 3way switches (light(s) controled in two locations) run the power to one switchbox, the "switch leg" (cable going to the light) from the other and a 3 wire cable between them.

In the second diagram you need to go from outlet to outlet THEN to the switch box. Then from the switch box to the light.

How do you know its wrong? I cant tell how many conductors they are pulling... Why not just send a 3 wire up to the fixture and a 3 wire down to the next switch, then if need be a 2 wire from the fixture to any more fixtures you would like on that set of 3-ways.
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Old 01-18-2008, 08:42 PM   #9
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Wiring Diagram - Will this work?


In your revised drawing, don't forget to feed the switches on the left.



Quote:
Why not just send a 3 wire up to the fixture and a 3 wire down to the next switch
Because that is goofy.

I don't like circuitry going thru fixtures. I like simple.



In AZ we do lighting/general receps on 15amp circuits.


And listen to you Leah, talking about K&T like a pro



Run all cables in the TOP of the boxes. The "make up" will be cleaner as the wires will fold in nicely.

DONT CUT YOUR WIRE TOO SHORT AT THE JBOXES!!

Leave plenty for pigtails etc. You can cut them to size when you make up the wires.

TIGHTEN YOUR WIRE NUTS....TIGHT !!
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Old 01-18-2008, 08:45 PM   #10
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Wiring Diagram - Will this work?


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Originally Posted by 220/221 View Post
Because that is goofy.

I don't like circuitry going thru fixtures. I like simple.

I like saving money, so I opt for my way, plus it saves box fill, but to each his own..... some people cant figure it out anyway...not including you in that statement...i only use #12 where it is required.
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Old 01-18-2008, 09:19 PM   #11
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Wiring Diagram - Will this work?


I do a LOT of troubleshooting Chris and I do NOT want to pull down fixtures, especially recessed cans, to check wiring.
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Old 01-18-2008, 09:23 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by 220/221 View Post
I do a LOT of troubleshooting Chris and I do NOT want to pull down fixtures, especially recessed cans, to check wiring.
How would how they are wired have any impact on troubleshooting? you can either figure it out or you cant...a bad splice is a bad splice no matter how its wired.... did my comment about box fill and saving money agree with you or not?
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Old 01-18-2008, 09:29 PM   #13
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How would how they are wired have any impact on troubleshooting?

If you are having problems with a circuit you need to check the splices. If there are splices in the fixtures other than simple switch legs, you have to pull them out to check them.

If you power is kept in and out of sw/recep boxes you only have to check the fixtures after looking in the EASILY ACCESSIBLE sw boxes.


Box fill schmoxfill. That is rarely an issue for me and ceratainly not in her diagram.

and....I rarely thing about saving money when it comes to a few feet of romex.
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Old 01-19-2008, 01:40 AM   #14
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Wiring Diagram - Will this work?


Leah, another option for the sensitive equipment is a TVSS (Transient Voltage Surge Supressor) Receptacle. Basically, a surge supressor built into an outlet. You can get them on E bay for cheap. By cheap I mean 10 or so bucks per outlet. But it is an option, and it does work. Hospitals use them quite a bit.
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Old 01-19-2008, 09:37 AM   #15
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Leah, to respond to your question "Is there any sincere benefit to separating the lights and recs onto different circuits", another reason would be if the breaker blows. I prefer to use separate circuits (where I can) to prevent a situation when a blown breaker due to a receptacle load (vacuum, space heater, short etc) will also cause the room to be in the dark.

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