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Old 02-24-2012, 01:43 AM   #1
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Wiring 220 from Sub Panel for Welder


I am looking to wire up a 220 outlet for my mig welder for some light welding out in my converted garage. The last owner put in a sub panel coming from the main (the main panel has a 2 pole 30A breaker). I am wondering if this will be possible? I have experience running 110 outlets but not with the 220 and wanted to get your input before talking with some guys at the local hardware store. I added a pic of the main and the sub.
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Old 02-24-2012, 02:36 AM   #2
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Wiring 220 from Sub Panel for Welder


If you have the know how to run 110 you can do 220. From a wirinf stand point only real difference is the hot and nuetral go into the break, which will require 2 spots, so you may have to make room on that box

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Old 02-24-2012, 02:39 AM   #3
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Wiring 220 from Sub Panel for Welder


I'd be concerned about the amperage draw of the welder usually they require 30a+. It is a rather simple install though. 10/2 for a 3 wire 10/3 for a 4 wire (assuming its 30a) much like a clothes dryer. Hot (black) hot (white marked black) ground or hot (black) hot (red) neutral (white) ground. Good luck if you have specs I can give you a better idea.
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Old 02-24-2012, 05:56 AM   #4
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Wiring 220 from Sub Panel for Welder


Quote:
Originally Posted by jasonreck71 View Post
If you have the know how to run 110 you can do 220. From a wirinf stand point only real difference is the hot and nuetral go into the break, which will require 2 spots, so you may have to make room on that box
Just so descriptions don't become confused, the neutral does not go into a breaker as that would create a direct short to ground. The wire that is normally the neutral (white in color) goes into the breaker in some cases and becomes another hot. It should also be taped/marked in black at each end to re-identify the wire as hot.
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Old 02-24-2012, 12:00 PM   #5
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Wiring 220 from Sub Panel for Welder


Thanks for the info.....the welder only requires a 20A breaker (Lincoln sp-175t) and I will only be running the outlet about 4' from the breaker. It would be nice to wire it up with an outdoor 220 receptacle if possible. Guess I will see if home depot or ace would have something like that....I will probably have to go to a more specialized store. I wired the plug on my welder for my last house that fit the dryer receptacle so it will be a 3 wire.

As far as the sub panel there are two open spots but in different locations (top photo). Is it relatively easy to rearrange the breakers? I will probably need to move the 20A to the right and then I will have two open spots on the left.
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Old 02-24-2012, 12:02 PM   #6
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Wiring 220 from Sub Panel for Welder


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Originally Posted by Knauer View Post
I'd be concerned about the amperage draw of the welder usually they require 30a+. It is a rather simple install though. 10/2 for a 3 wire 10/3 for a 4 wire (assuming its 30a) much like a clothes dryer. Hot (black) hot (white marked black) ground or hot (black) hot (red) neutral (white) ground. Good luck if you have specs I can give you a better idea.
I would wire for 50 Amp. Both of mine have a 50 Amp plug while one only tops out at 30 the other tops out at 50. May want to rethink that wire size if you ever think you would want a larger unit or a Lincoln tombstone.

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Old 02-24-2012, 12:07 PM   #7
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Wiring 220 from Sub Panel for Welder


Yeah you are right....I just looked at it again and it says 20A input current with a 40A recommended breaker. Since the sub panel is powered by a 2 pole 30A does that mean I cannot run a 40A breaker?
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Old 02-24-2012, 01:47 PM   #8
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Wiring 220 from Sub Panel for Welder


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Originally Posted by connor016 View Post
Yeah you are right....I just looked at it again and it says 20A input current with a 40A recommended breaker. Since the sub panel is powered by a 2 pole 30A does that mean I cannot run a 40A breaker?
Post the specs for your welder.
You may find that the power out while the arc is struck exceeds the power in, i.e., volts x breaker amps.
These welders depend on short duty cycles and breaker trip curves that tolerate this kind of current for a minute or two.
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Old 02-24-2012, 01:54 PM   #9
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Wiring 220 from Sub Panel for Welder


Here are the specs:

Input Voltage Breaker Size Input Amps Power Cord
230V/60Hz 40 Super Lag 20/22 50 Amp, 250V 3 prong
208V/60Hz

The full manual is online
http://www.lincolnelectric.com/asset...oln3/im726.pdf

So it looks like a 40 amp breaker is whats needed
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Old 02-24-2012, 01:58 PM   #10
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Wiring 220 from Sub Panel for Welder


Here is a link to the specs. Looks like it uses the same type of cord a 3 wire stove uses. But only draws 23 amps. It has to be the peak amp draw that requires that breaker size of 40 amps. Maybe on a low setting you could make do on 30 amps


http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...dwy9901fB2cHhg
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Old 02-24-2012, 02:12 PM   #11
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Wiring 220 from Sub Panel for Welder


Yeah I only use it for smaller weld projects so it will be on a low setting. So just so I have it straight if I put in a 40A breaker in the sub panel, then if I hit over 30A then the 2-pole 30A breaker in the main that supplies the sub panel would flip?

Also since I need two slots in my sub panel is it easy to move the current ones around to open two spaces?

It sounds like I should just go with a 30A breaker as long as I can make room for it.
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Old 02-24-2012, 02:36 PM   #12
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Wiring 220 from Sub Panel for Welder


You could try it and see how it goes. If you keep kicking the breaker you will need to pull new wire and see if your sub panel is capable of whatever you decide to run and also check your conduit size.

But it's worth a try. I know my 120v mig welder says 20 amp circuit but it works fine on a 15 amp circuit at my apartment.
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Old 02-25-2012, 11:56 AM   #13
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Wiring 220 from Sub Panel for Welder


Pg A-1 shows 20v x 130A = 2600w = power into the arc = 11A @ 240V but at 30% duty cycle. This would be 37A x 240V = 9kw into the arc at 100% duty cycle.

"40 Super Lag" implies they are playing off current draw with the breaker trip curve.
Compare the trip curves of this breaker with your candidate breaker. Decide how often you will tolerate the breaker tripping while you're working, and then waiting for your breaker to cool down.
A 20A breaker may take a few seconds to a minute or so to trip at 40A, IIRC.

On pg. A-6 the #8 AWG/75C implies the allowable steady-state current draw (averaged over several minutes, I guess).

It's interesting that the troubleshooting table does not show 'breaker tripping' as a problem to be fixed.

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Old 02-25-2012, 01:44 PM   #14
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Wiring 220 from Sub Panel for Welder


Run #6 wire, a 50A breaker, and a 50A receptacle. The 20A rating isn't "real" - that's the average current over a duty cycle period. It may draw well over 40A while the arc is lit - hence the need for a 40A "super lag" breaker. If you use a NEMA 6-50R receptacle, you won't have to change the plug on the welder.
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Old 02-25-2012, 02:22 PM   #15
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Wiring 220 from Sub Panel for Welder


Kinda off topic but do you run Argon, C02 or a Argon C02 mix. I just bought my welder this summer from the welding supply that comes to my work and adapted my C02 for now. But I have been thinking about switching to Argon. Kinda wondering how good it is.

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