Go Back   DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum > Home Improvement > Electrical

CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY...IT'S FREE!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 01-13-2009, 10:18 AM   #1
DIY'er
 
jamiedolan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Neenah, Wisconsin, USA
Posts: 2,032
Rewards Points: 1,000
Blog Entries: 2
Default

Wire size for dryer


HI;

I just want to verify that the wire size that was used in correct for my parrents dryer.

Name plate reads:

120/240 3 or 4 wire connection. I realize a 4 wire setup is required now.
It's Amp rating is at 28A. It was on 10awg with a 30A double pole breaker.

I only questioned it because it is rated (28A) so closely to the breaker size (30A) I am just wondering if since it is rated at more than 80% of the capicity of the circuit if it needs to be upsized?

Thanks so much
Jamie

__________________
Jamie Dolan - Neenah, WI
Jamie Dolan Paw Dogs
Need Help Uploading Photos? Click here.
jamiedolan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2009, 10:30 AM   #2
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Iowa
Posts: 1,543
Rewards Points: 1,000
Default

Wire size for dryer


It isn't a problem, you usually size loads to 80% when the load is long lasting. Like 3 hours or more.

You could double check with the manufacturer, they might have a max. over current protection and minimum over current protection.

If it is 3-wire, you could run a 10/3 line there. 8 awg is ok, but I think its a waste unless the distance is far.


Last edited by rgsgww; 01-13-2009 at 10:34 AM.
rgsgww is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2009, 12:01 PM   #3
UAW SKILLED TRADES
 
Stubbie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Kansas
Posts: 5,040
Rewards Points: 2,050
Default

Wire size for dryer


There seems to be a lot of confusion about the 80% rule. This continues to drive me nuts.

80% rule equals = general purpose branch circuits serving more than one outlet. No single cord and plug appliance can exceed 80% of the branch circuit rating. Branch circuit rating = circuit breaker size.

Duplex receptacle = 2 outlets
Single receptacle = 1 outlet

Dryer branch circuit = branch circuit to a single outlet no other outlets..ie..an individual or dedicated branch circuit.

NEC 210.21(B)(1)

A single receptacle on a individual branch circuit shall have an ampere rating not less than the branch circuit rating. 30 amp breaker serving an individual branch circuit = 30 amp receptacle rating minimum.

NEC 210.23 Permissible Loads

An individual branch circuit shall be permitted to supply any load for which it is rated.

Dryer = 30 amp individual branch circuit, therefore it can be 100% of the branch circuit rating. So a 28 amp dryer is just peachy.

Quote:
Operating 3 hrs or more on a on going basis = continuous load = branch circuit conductors rated 125% of the equipments load for an individual branch circuit. 28 amps x 1.25 = 35 amps. Would require 8 awg copper conductors minimum for the branch circuit if using 60C column of table 310.16.
Your dryer is not a continuous load so this doesn't apply

Hope this helps
__________________
" One nice thing about the NEC articles ... you have lots of choices"

Stubbie

Last edited by Stubbie; 01-13-2009 at 12:14 PM.
Stubbie is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2009, 07:45 PM   #4
DIY'er
 
jamiedolan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Neenah, Wisconsin, USA
Posts: 2,032
Rewards Points: 1,000
Blog Entries: 2
Default

Wire size for dryer


Thank you for the explanation and the help
Jamie
__________________
Jamie Dolan - Neenah, WI
Jamie Dolan Paw Dogs
Need Help Uploading Photos? Click here.
jamiedolan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2009, 08:17 PM   #5
Licensed Electrical Cont.
 
Speedy Petey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: NY State
Posts: 6,858
Rewards Points: 2,020
Default

Wire size for dryer


Guys, what about

210.23(B) 30-Ampere Branch Circuits. A 30-ampere branch circuit shall be permitted to supply fixed lighting units with heavy-duty lampholders in other than a dwelling unit(s) or utilization equipment in any occupancy. A rating of any one cord-and-plug-connected utilization equipment shall not exceed 80 percent of the branch-circuit ampere rating.
__________________
Sometimes I feel like if I answer any more questions it is like someone trying to climb over a fence to jump off a bridge and me giving them a boost.
Answers based on the 2008 & 2011 NEC.
Speedy Petey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2009, 08:31 PM   #6
Electrician
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Connecticut, Litchfield
Posts: 2,015
Rewards Points: 1,000
Default

Wire size for dryer


I'll ask the simple question, what model did you buy that has a nameplate of 28 amps?
chris75 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2009, 10:18 PM   #7
DIY'er
 
jamiedolan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Neenah, Wisconsin, USA
Posts: 2,032
Rewards Points: 1,000
Blog Entries: 2
Default

Wire size for dryer


Quote:
Originally Posted by chris75 View Post
I'll ask the simple question, what model did you buy that has a nameplate of 28 amps?

Not sure what brand it is, but will take a look and let you know. It is fairly new, just a few years old. Is that a weird rating for a dryer? I hope I am not an idiot that read the name plate wrong... I was using a flashlight... Guess I should push in some new wires for the light in there. too much to do..

Will let you know tomorrow. Thanks
Jamie
__________________
Jamie Dolan - Neenah, WI
Jamie Dolan Paw Dogs
Need Help Uploading Photos? Click here.
jamiedolan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2009, 10:59 PM   #8
UAW SKILLED TRADES
 
Stubbie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Kansas
Posts: 5,040
Rewards Points: 2,050
Default

Wire size for dryer


I'm pretty sure but not positive that 210.23 (A) thru (D) is speaking about branch circuits supplying more than one (individual) outlet. 210.23 1st paragraph specifically IMO singles out individual branch circuits as being able to supply any load for which they are rated. Everything after that is talking about more than one outlet. 210.23(B) is talking about supplying more than one 30 amp outlet on the same 30 amp rated branch circuit.


Handbook commentary:

A branch circuit that supplies two or more outlets is permitted to supply only the loads specified in accordance to 210.23 (A) through (D) and summarized in table 210.24. Other circuits are not permitted to have more than one outlet and are considered individual branch circuits.

What say Ye??
__________________
" One nice thing about the NEC articles ... you have lots of choices"

Stubbie
Stubbie is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2009, 11:54 PM   #9
My License Ain't 4 Sale..
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Atlanta, Ga/Hamilton, Al
Posts: 1,813
Rewards Points: 1,000
Default

Wire size for dryer


I bet the plate said something like 23 A, and Jamie saw 28. Besides, as long as the wiring is protected by the correct size breaker, that's about all we really have to be concerned with from a safety standpoint.
InPhase277 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2009, 06:36 AM   #10
Licensed Electrical Cont.
 
Speedy Petey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: NY State
Posts: 6,858
Rewards Points: 2,020
Default

Wire size for dryer


And of course Stubbie is right.
It's what I don't read that kills me. You think you know something by heart for 20 years and still miss a sentence.
__________________
Sometimes I feel like if I answer any more questions it is like someone trying to climb over a fence to jump off a bridge and me giving them a boost.
Answers based on the 2008 & 2011 NEC.
Speedy Petey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2009, 08:03 AM   #11
UAW SKILLED TRADES
 
Stubbie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Kansas
Posts: 5,040
Rewards Points: 2,050
Default

Wire size for dryer


Quote:
Originally Posted by InPhase277 View Post
I bet the plate said something like 23 A, and Jamie saw 28. Besides, as long as the wiring is protected by the correct size breaker, that's about all we really have to be concerned with from a safety standpoint.
There you go trying to make things simple.......
__________________
" One nice thing about the NEC articles ... you have lots of choices"

Stubbie
Stubbie is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2009, 08:05 AM   #12
UAW SKILLED TRADES
 
Stubbie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Kansas
Posts: 5,040
Rewards Points: 2,050
Default

Wire size for dryer


Quote:
Originally Posted by Speedy Petey View Post
And of course Stubbie is right.
It's what I don't read that kills me. You think you know something by heart for 20 years and still miss a sentence.
This happens quite often when we actually stare at the code too long.....
__________________
" One nice thing about the NEC articles ... you have lots of choices"

Stubbie
Stubbie is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2009, 11:17 AM   #13
DIYer
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Virginia
Posts: 910
Rewards Points: 500
Default

Wire size for dryer


Quote:
Originally Posted by Stubbie View Post
There seems to be a lot of confusion about the 80% rule. This continues to drive me nuts.

80% rule equals = general purpose branch circuits serving more than one outlet. No single cord and plug appliance can exceed 80% of the branch circuit rating. Branch circuit rating = circuit breaker size.

I'm more confused now. Wouldn't a 1500 watt coffee maker on a 15 amp circuit violate this then?

Or lets say I put all 20 amp outlets on my 12 gauge circuit... The biggest load I can plug into any one of them is 16 amps? Really?
Gigs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2009, 06:47 PM   #14
UAW SKILLED TRADES
 
Stubbie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Kansas
Posts: 5,040
Rewards Points: 2,050
Default

Wire size for dryer


The only people that would really know these requirements would be electricians or someone familiar with the NEC. The typical homeowner will plug anything they want in the receptacle. The NEC can not control what you plug into an outlet. The intent is to not consume the entire branch circuit rating with one appliance since there are other receptacles on the branch circuit ... possibly lights and other loads both fixed and cord and plug.

In my opionion these code sections are more for recommendations to the electrician so he will design his circuits to prevent reasonable overloads from cord and plug equipment that he knows will be on the branch circuit.
__________________
" One nice thing about the NEC articles ... you have lots of choices"

Stubbie
Stubbie is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2009, 05:43 AM   #15
DIY'er
 
jamiedolan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Neenah, Wisconsin, USA
Posts: 2,032
Rewards Points: 1,000
Blog Entries: 2
Default

Wire size for dryer


It is a Whirlpool Dryer. Will get a photo of the name plate and post it.

I looked again, but, have to take a photo, it looks like 28, but is printed pretty small.

Ran across this on the Iaei.org site tonight:

Question 7. Is a 28-amp electric clothes dryer plugged in to a 30-amp individual branch circuit in compliance with the permissible loads of NEC 210.23, or does the 80 percent rule apply? — E.K.
Answer 7. Section 210.23 [NEC 2002] states, "In no case shall the load exceed the branch-circuit ampere rating. An individual branch circuit shall be permitted to supply any load for which it is rated. A branch circuit supplying two or more outlets or receptacles shall supply only the loads specified according to its size as specified in 210.23(A) through (D) and as summarized in 210.24 and Table 210.24." Section 210.23(B) states, "30-Ampere Branch Circuits. A 30-ampere branch circuit shall be permitted to supply fixed lighting units with heavy-duty lampholders in other than a dwelling unit(s) or utilization equipment in any occupancy. A rating of any one cord-and-plug-connected utilization equipment shall not exceed 80 percent of the branch-circuit ampere rating."
Thus, the question asks if a 28-ampere load is acceptable on a 30-amp individual branch circuit, and the answer is yes, as long as that is the only utilization equipment on that circuit with one outlet or receptacle. The 80 percent rule applies when two or more outlets or receptacles are installed per 210.23(A) through (D). — Raymond W. Weber

__________________
Jamie Dolan - Neenah, WI
Jamie Dolan Paw Dogs
Need Help Uploading Photos? Click here.

Last edited by jamiedolan; 01-15-2009 at 12:27 PM.
jamiedolan is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Recessed light wire size jizzle Electrical 6 12-03-2008 09:56 AM
hooking up dryer....bronx ny code SURFBUG Appliances 6 10-14-2008 09:41 PM
Aluminum wire size/ guage / amps? walt1122 Electrical 17 07-30-2008 10:44 AM
Wire size and Breaker size for remodel ?? Skydmark1 Electrical 12 12-15-2007 05:00 PM
wire size wire to 10kw furnace? lochcarron Electrical 1 04-10-2005 07:43 PM




Top of Page | View New Posts

Copyright © 2003-2014 Escalate Media. All Rights Reserved.