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Old 01-24-2009, 11:23 PM   #16
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I'm an apprentice, and I have put tons of fixtures together with #12 and #18 with wire nuts. Just use quality wire nuts, not that junk from Japan!

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Old 01-25-2009, 10:09 AM   #17
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Hi Jamie
The split bolts aren't listed for big bunches of #12's. I use large blue wing nuts for lots of grounds. Green with the holes for making up switch and receptacle boxes. But watch the instructions on the box for the max number of conductors which ever you use. Are you watching your box fill with all those wires? I would never just twist grounds with no connector or wire nut. Unless I was also going to solder. That's how my Dad made connections when I was watching him from knee or hip level. He would make a perfect twist and then solder each connection. Then tape. I have some old wire nuts that are a copper lug type thing with a set screw. Then a bakelite cap goes over the connection. It looks like a wire nut but there is no twisting to install.

I have bought at Greybar too but found them a little pricey. I like Menards also. But the last 2 1000' spools of 12-2 I bought there, had twists and lumps of the conductors inside the outer jacket. Made pulling a chore and twice it knocked the jacket off the NM when going through a hole. Both spools had areas like that all the way through. Something in the manufacturing process went wrong. The conductors didn't lay next to each other like they are supposed to do. I had a 250' roll of 14-3 with the same problem. But I buy a lot of material at Menards. To bad I have to drive 100 miles to get to one.
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Old 01-25-2009, 10:15 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrclen View Post
Unless I was also going to solder. That's how my Dad made connections when I was watching him from knee or hip level.

The Code no longer allows solder as the sole connection for grounds. Don't really know why though...
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Old 01-25-2009, 12:02 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamiedolan View Post
I was told that I could also use a split bolt when I have a lot of wire I need to join and just heat shrink it with rated heat shrink. I looked at some packages of split bolts in the store, and it didn't say it was UL listed for that purpose, so I am not sure if it is legal. The split bolts just say something like for 6 awg wire, didn't see any that said 5-10 #12, 8-15 #14, etc.

I got some insulated crimp-on's and a Klien crimper tonight. I started doing some light fixtures, where I have to connect 12awg to 18awg. I just don't like the feel of the connection I get between the 12 solid and the 18 stranded with a wire nut no matter what I do. I am hoping the crimp-on's feel like a better connection.

I also got some large crimp rings to use on grounds, should be nice in boxes that are tight on fill.

Thanks

Jamie
UL rated heat shrink? I could use some myself.
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Old 01-26-2009, 12:19 AM   #20
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UL rated heat shrink? I could use some myself.
I used the Garden Bender:
Wire Nuts-154328_front500.jpg

It says rated to 600v and it has a UL stamp on it as you can see. Is this ok to use? I had a connection today on a CCC where I was really short on wire, and it would have literally taken house to pull in a new cable. So I slide on a crimp on, twisted and crimped. Then double shrink warped it. To the best of my understanding this is a legal install, because it has a mechanical connection (crimped with my Klien Crimpers) and it is insulated with 600V UL listed shrink wrap. So is what I did legit? I am sure it is very safe and secure.

Is there ever any reason to solder anymore? Is it legit if you use a mechanical as well?

Jamie
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Old 01-26-2009, 12:24 AM   #21
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posted in error.
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Old 01-26-2009, 09:21 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by InPhase277 View Post
The Code no longer allows solder as the sole connection for grounds. Don't really know why though...
That is affirmative. If you notice I said Dad made the splice by twisting. The solder was extra. That method is still legal today. But you had to see his twists to understand. They were a solid mechanical connection. Not just a twist as we think of it.

I believe that was put in the code as they felt the solder could melt and then the connection would be lost.
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Old 01-26-2009, 09:31 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamiedolan View Post
I used the Garden Bender:
It says rated to 600v and it has a UL stamp on it as you can see. Is this ok to use?

Is there ever any reason to solder anymore? Is it legit if you use a mechnical as well?
Yes that heat shrink is fine to use. I use underground splice kits which also use heat shrink to cover the joint. The listed heat shrink is handy stuff for certain places.

The solder gives a very low impedance splice. Not really much reason to do it any longer and it takes to long. It is legit if you use some method of mechanically connecting the wires. It was very common in the old days. Of course back then craftsmanship was very common too.
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Old 01-26-2009, 01:32 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrclen View Post
But watch the instructions on the box for the max number of conductors which ever you use. Are you watching your box fill with all those wires?
Wow, I don't think I was even coherent last night, had been up for 36 hours. Yes, I used one of the large grey pull / j-box's, so I am pretty sure it is within full limits, or very close.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jrclen View Post
I like Menards also. But the last 2 1000' spools of 12-2 I bought there, had twists and lumps of the conductors inside the outer jacket. Made pulling a chore and twice it knocked the jacket off the NM when going through a hole. Both spools had areas like that all the way through. Something in the manufacturing process went wrong. The conductors didn't lay next to each other like they are supposed to do. I had a 250' roll of 14-3 with the same problem. But I buy a lot of material at Menards. To bad I have to drive 100 miles to get to one.
Thats weird. I Have never noticed any quality issues with the wire from menards. I always do pay attention to things like that, watching for twists, torn jackets, etc as I am pulling out the wire.

Thanks
Jamie
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Old 01-27-2009, 10:22 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamiedolan View Post
Thats weird. I Have never noticed any quality issues with the wire from menards. I always do pay attention to things like that, watching for twists, torn jackets, etc as I am pulling out the wire.

Thanks
Jamie
That was the first time I noticed a problem too. I should have returned it.
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Old 01-27-2009, 02:49 PM   #26
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Quote:
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That was the first time I noticed a problem too. I should have returned it.
FYI: Menards has been excellent about returns. If you use a check or charge card to pay, they keep all the info in the computer and you can use the kisok in the front of the store to retrieve a receipt for something like 18 months after purchase.

I did exchange a double pole CH a while back, the clips were too tight or something on the breaker, and I didn't want to damage the bus. They just swaped it out.

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Old 01-27-2009, 07:28 PM   #27
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Yes, they are really good about returns. I just wish I had one closer to me.
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Old 09-09-2009, 07:20 PM   #28
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Does anyone ever remember "Scotchlok" putting out a wire nut that they
had listed, (UL), for aluminum wire splicing.

Scotchlok uses has what I call a, "live spring connectior", with I believe
will maintain contact pressure on the conductors during use.

I am also of the the opinion their plastic shell is non-flamable"

Has anyone use this wire nut when working with aluminum wire.

Has anyone seen any, lad test done with this type of wire nut, where
it was used to splice aluminum to aluminum or aluminum to copper.

I believe anyone who has open up a j-box and seen scotchlok wire found
then hard to removed. I had, so I usually just cut then with my side
cutters.

I believe this wire nut and not the Idea 65 would make a better wire
splice. But if not UL listed, you can't use it. To bad.
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Old 09-09-2009, 07:43 PM   #29
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220/221 will probably have a non-Scotchlok suggestion
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Old 09-09-2009, 07:45 PM   #30
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Damn...reviving a post from January


Quote:
I believe anyone who has open up a j-box and seen scotchlok wire found
them hard to removed. I had, so I usually just cut then with my side
cutters.
LOL. You have to squeeze them with your sidecutters to get them started.

I hate those things.


Quote:
Does anyone ever remember "Scotchlok" putting out a wire nut that they
had listed, (UL), for aluminum wire splicing.

Yeah, until the early 90's maybe when all the wirenuts lost their listings. There was a period of a couple years when there was no listed way to connect Al wiring

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