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Old 06-24-2008, 07:47 PM   #16
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Wire gauge recommendations please


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I have the space in the box to run 2 seperate lines one down each side of the fence. Thinking about it now that may be the better way to handle things.
That would be a good move.

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Old 06-25-2008, 12:22 AM   #17
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Welcome back Stubbie!


Thanks Househelper

I'm still very busy and hopefully in a few weeks I'll be able to get some time to spend here on the forum. I check in from time to time to see how things are going and if any new faces are on board. I see we have wirenut and micromind posting frequently, that was always something I hoped for on the forum was to attract knowledgeable professionals. So hope we have given these two a good welcome and they hang around for a while.
I've been scarce lately due to my mother in laws passing and taking on the remodeling of her house. 1939 WPA home.....its been interesting to say the least. Anyway also decided to take on a few side jobs to pay for my freakin gas while this remodel is in progress. This is the first home I have been in that has open splices in the attic where jb's would normally be. The splices are soldered and taped, then the old romex goes on to the ceiling fixtures which are hung from 3 inch metal octagons. Splices in the metal boxes are also soldered and taped. All the receptacles are in handy boxes. I think the one thing that amused me the most was a run from the panel that had 4 different cables used to get to a ceiling box. The first few feet was old BX, then open spliced to about 5 feet of 2 wire cloth style romex, then a few feet of 2 wire black poly sheathed romex, then modern 3 wire romex. My wifes dad did this many years ago. He was an electrician for the railroad.....

Got a little off subject so hope the op has his plan of doing his project figured out.

I have nothing against gfci breakers but I just don't like chasing a tripped one in the mainpanel if I'm working in the back yard. That said... assuming there isn't a tool fault modern gfci's have very little nuisance tripping whether receptacles or breakers. As for trench depth 12 inches or 24 I don't hand dig trenches anymore that are over a few feet in length. I use a trencher when not contracting that part out. So depth is not a significant advantage as far as I'm concerned.

Snowdog

QUOTE]The farthest I would be using them would be about 200' into the run. Of course it is at the farthest point away from the house. The rest of the run would be returning down the other side of the yard.[/quote]

No... on a single 120 volt circuit the last receptacle at the end of your cable is the farthest from the panel. That could be only a few feet from the panel as the crow flies but as the wire flies it would be 450 feet.....

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Old 06-25-2008, 09:36 AM   #18
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Welcome back Stubbie.

All my electrician dad's splices were twisted in a way to make a good mechanical connection, and then soldered, and then taped with 2 types of tape. When I started working with him, mine had to be the same and he was very picky. According to him, the twists were the connection, and the solder was just to make the electrons go faster and avoid heat. The twists were not like we make now days with our linemans pliers, they were tight, small loops, and secure against unwinding with or without the solder. Labor was cheap back then.
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Old 06-25-2008, 11:59 AM   #19
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Yep, labor was cheap all right and so was the construction methods.... One of the bedrooms they built used 2x4 ceiling joists..but they were too short to span the room so crippled on a short piece of 2x4 like this.......
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Old 06-25-2008, 07:42 PM   #20
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Yep, labor was cheap all right and so was the construction methods.... One of the bedrooms they built used 2x4 ceiling joists..but they were too short to span the room so crippled on a short piece of 2x4 like this.......
That is for expansion and contraction. Ah those old buildings are top notch.
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Old 06-26-2008, 01:39 AM   #21
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The farthest I would be using them would be about 200' into the run. Of course it is at the farthest point away from the house. The rest of the run would be returning down the other side of the yard.

I have the space in the box to run 2 seperate lines one down each side of the fence. Thinking about it now that may be the better way to handle things.
At 200 feet you still need to account for voltage drop and will have to oversize the wire. Stranded has better conductivity, because it has more surface area.
As far as the depth of your trench, the NEC code requires that PVC be buried by a min. of 18" in earth (regardless of whether you have it on a GFI breaker or not). If you're running gal then you don't have to worry about the cover and bury that at 12" or less. All stub outs to grade have to be in gal. Which means that you have to bend pipe or dig your trench a little deeper for PVC to allow for the radius of the 90 elbows to stay at 18" below grade. Most inspectors aren't so sticky on it, but on occasion you can get one who will call you on 2 to 5 inches.
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Old 06-26-2008, 05:39 AM   #22
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If you're running gal then you don't have to worry about the cover and bury that at 12" or less. All stub outs to grade have to be in gal.
Code reference please...
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Old 06-26-2008, 08:22 AM   #23
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As far as the depth of your trench, the NEC code requires that PVC be buried by a min. of 18" in earth (regardless of whether you have it on a GFI breaker or not).
Where are you getting your info? Code reference?
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Old 06-26-2008, 09:27 AM   #24
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At 200 feet you still need to account for voltage drop and will have to oversize the wire. Stranded has better conductivity, because it has more surface area.
As far as the depth of your trench, the NEC code requires that PVC be buried by a min. of 18" in earth (regardless of whether you have it on a GFI breaker or not). If you're running gal then you don't have to worry about the cover and bury that at 12" or less. All stub outs to grade have to be in gal. Which means that you have to bend pipe or dig your trench a little deeper for PVC to allow for the radius of the 90 elbows to stay at 18" below grade. Most inspectors aren't so sticky on it, but on occasion you can get one who will call you on 2 to 5 inches.
Welcome to the forum. Don't get scared off, but if your going to cite the National Electric Code on this forum you have to do it correctly, as this place is full of real electricians helping people out.
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Old 06-26-2008, 09:58 AM   #25
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with all due respect, I'm a licensed electrician in the state of California.
I didn't see anything about siting article #s and paragraphs from the NEC in the rules. But if that is what is required...
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Old 06-26-2008, 10:22 AM   #26
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It's not so much you have to cite code articles, you just have to be accurate in your responses.
Quote:
...the NEC code requires that PVC be buried by a min. of 18" in earth (regardless of whether you have it on a GFI breaker or not)
The NEC allows residential 15A or 20A branch circuits 120V or less with GFCI protection to be buried 12" deep.
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If you're running gal then you don't have to worry about the cover and bury that at 12" or less. All stub outs to grade have to be in gal.
I assume you mean rigid pipe when you say "gal". That minimum cover is 6". Stub outs can be PVC as long as the outlet is solidly supported.

If these items are local amendments, then that must be stated.
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Old 06-26-2008, 03:26 PM   #27
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with all due respect, I'm a licensed electrician in the state of California.
I didn't see anything about siting article #s and paragraphs from the NEC in the rules. But if that is what is required...

I just didnt want everyone reading your post going out and buying galvanized 90's and FA adapters...
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Old 06-26-2008, 05:58 PM   #28
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I just didnt want everyone reading your post going out and buying galvanized 90's and FA adapters...
Or digging 450' of trench 6" deeper than they have too...although it never hurts to be deeper.
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Old 06-27-2008, 09:15 AM   #29
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Wire gauge recommendations please


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with all due respect, I'm a licensed electrician in the state of California.
I didn't see anything about siting article #s and paragraphs from the NEC in the rules. But if that is what is required...
Not required, but someone will ask if they feel you are wrong. The DIY people trust the posts of the electricians here as gospel, so we try to make sure everything is accurate. If any of us makes a mistake on code or anything else, someone is going to correct it or ask for an article. That keeps things accurate and correct. The treads are searchable so imagine how many people may be misled by a mistake. And we try to keep local codes out of it.

That said, welcome to the forum.
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Old 08-22-2008, 01:35 PM   #30
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Wire gauge recommendations please


Stubby's diagram is correct. Just notice that you will be using 12/2 UF with ground after you hook up the GFCI's. I wonder if Stubby was back in the Fitness Center at Ford KCAP when I was teaching this a couple of years ago?

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