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Old 02-21-2011, 09:36 PM   #1
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Why a dedicated line?


Hello,
I'm in the process of remodeling my kitchen. My wife has purchased
- new gas cooktop
- double wall over
- warming drawer

For the cooktop and warming drawer...
THe cooktop states it requires a 15 amp dedicated circuit/3 prong receptacle, and the specs show it draws only 1.0 Amp.

The warming drawer states it too requires a dedicated 15 amp circuit/ 3 prong receptacle. Specs show it has a load of 450W 3.75 Amps at 120V

Why do these each require a dedicated circuit when it seems to me that a single circuit would easily handle it?

I"m trying to limit the number of cables I have to run and I do have a dedicated 20 amp 12-2 AWG circuit available that I 'thought' I could use to feed these two?


For the double wall oven....
I currently have a maytag electric range fed from a 50 Amp circuit.
I'm not sure of the size cable yet, but I do think it is AL.

The new double oven specs as:
Single phase 3- or 4-wire cable, 120/240 or 120/208 Volt, 60 Hertz
AC only electrical supply with ground required on separate circuit fused
on both sides of line.
Connected Load (kW Rating) @ 240/208 Volts = 8.0 /6.0kW

Amps @ 240/208 Volts = 33.0 /29.0 Amps

Recommended Circuit Breaker 40 Amps


I was hoping that I could just use this same circuit?
The new ovens will not be in the same location as the old range so I was hoping to be able to just extend this circuit over to the new location by using the existing box where the current range is hard wired as a junction box and run an apropriately sized cable from that point over to the other wall to feed the new double oven.

Is this OK?

Thx in advance


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Old 02-22-2011, 12:14 AM   #2
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Why a dedicated line?


Quote:
Originally Posted by tmorriss View Post
Hello,
I'm in the process of remodeling my kitchen. My wife has purchased
- new gas cooktop
- double wall over
- warming drawer

For the cooktop and warming drawer...
THe cooktop states it requires a 15 amp dedicated circuit/3 prong receptacle, and the specs show it draws only 1.0 Amp.

The warming drawer states it too requires a dedicated 15 amp circuit/ 3 prong receptacle. Specs show it has a load of 450W 3.75 Amps at 120V
I see no reason out side of the manufacutres instructions that these can not be on the same circuit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tmorriss View Post
For the double wall oven....
I currently have a maytag electric range fed from a 50 Amp circuit.
I'm not sure of the size cable yet, but I do think it is AL.

Recommended Circuit Breaker 40 Amps


I was hoping that I could just use this same circuit?
The new ovens will not be in the same location as the old range so I was hoping to be able to just extend this circuit over to the new location by using the existing box where the current range is hard wired as a junction box and run an apropriately sized cable from that point over to the other wall to feed the new double oven.

Is this OK?
Simply change out the 50a breaker for a 40a unit, assuming that the wire is properly sized.


I would very much recommend that your extension of the circuit be inside the wall, or down thru floor and back up to new location if you have a crawl space. However there are wiring methods that could be used in that case, flexible cord is not one of them. You could use type MC or EMT

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Old 02-22-2011, 12:34 AM   #3
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Why a dedicated line?


Quote:

I was hoping that I could just use this same circuit?
The new ovens will not be in the same location as the old range so I was hoping to be able to just extend this circuit over to the new location by using the existing box where the current range is hard wired as a junction box and run an apropriately sized cable from that point over to the other wall to feed the new double oven.
it depends. Is the existing circuit a 3 wire or a 4 wire circuit? If a 3 wire, you cannot extend it. It a 4 wire, you can extend it. Just be sure you use proper connectors for the aluminum wire.
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Old 02-22-2011, 08:49 AM   #4
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Why a dedicated line?


Since they are resistive loads and combined will not trip a circuit then you can combine them on one circuit. You can use the existing circuit line for this but change the breaker to a 15Amp to protect the devices.

As for the oven, if the outlet where the stove is plugged in has 4 slots(HOT/NEUT/HOT/GRD) then it will not be an issue to extend it to the new location and as stated before you will need to change the breaker to protect the device. The minimum wire size is #8/3. Wiring method is your choice. If you have access underneath, and it is acceptable in your area, I would reccomend romex wire(NMD 90) and drill the floor joists to the new location with the right sized drill bit.

Note: ALL junction boxes MUST be accessible.
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Old 02-22-2011, 09:28 AM   #5
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Why a dedicated line?


I just checked it. It's a 3 wire cable
Now what? I assume this means a new cable has to be run from the panel?
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Old 02-22-2011, 09:33 AM   #6
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Why a dedicated line?


Quote:
Originally Posted by tmorriss View Post
I just checked it. It's a 3 wire cable
Now what? I assume this means a new cable has to be run from the panel?
Correct.
You can use 8/3 with ground.
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Old 02-22-2011, 09:54 AM   #7
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Why a dedicated line?


That's a bummer. Running new lines presents a real problem. The breaker panel is in the garage (connected to house) but on the opposite wall. The wires from the panel all go up and over the garage ceiling and into the house from there, then drop down at various points. The garage is all finished, ceiling/walls all sheetrocked and painted.
Looks like it's time to call a pro for this part.

Just so I know. Why is it you can't extend this cable because it's 3 wire? Is it because there is no NEU/COM?

Can you not extend ANY 3 wire cable (say 14-2 or 12-2) from a junction box to run elsewhere?
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Old 02-22-2011, 10:34 AM   #8
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Why a dedicated line?


Quote:
Originally Posted by tmorriss View Post
That's a bummer. Running new lines presents a real problem. The breaker panel is in the garage (connected to house) but on the opposite wall. The wires from the panel all go up and over the garage ceiling and into the house from there, then drop down at various points. The garage is all finished, ceiling/walls all sheetrocked and painted.
Looks like it's time to call a pro for this part.

Just so I know. Why is it you can't extend this cable because it's 3 wire? Is it because there is no NEU/COM?

Can you not extend ANY 3 wire cable (say 14-2 or 12-2) from a junction box to run elsewhere?
So the outlet has 3 slots not 4? or did you open the box and look at the wire?
Your oven needs both 120 and 240volts so you need (HOT/NEUT/HOT) and you also need the ground wire as well.
Check in the box as well to be sure(shut the power off first).
We will work out options if you need to run from the panel.(Pipe on the outside of the house or something).
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Old 02-22-2011, 11:11 AM   #9
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Why a dedicated line?


I just scanned this thread and see that some are saying you cannot exten a 3 wire circuit. Why Not? Because the new stove has 4 wires? Why not extend the 3 wire (original) circuit and change the pigtail on the oven?

Can that not be done, since this not new constrution and assuming the oven has a bonding/grounding strap?

Last edited by boman47k; 02-22-2011 at 11:19 AM.
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Old 02-22-2011, 11:20 AM   #10
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Why a dedicated line?


I remeber being a kid and touching the old chest freezer which did not have a ground and getting a shock. That was on a 15Amp circuit.

I don't want to think of a shock from an appliance with that much current potential.

I have seen SO much not done to code.

The Building Code is the worst building one can build without it falling down. The electical code is the minimum for safe electrical work.

Last edited by hhuggles; 02-22-2011 at 11:27 AM.
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Old 02-22-2011, 11:33 AM   #11
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Why a dedicated line?


Quote:
Originally Posted by boman47k View Post
I just scanned this thread and see that some are saying you cannot exten a 3 wire circuit. Why Not? Because the new stove has 4 wires? Why not extend the 3 wire (original) circuit and change the pigtail on the oven?

Can that not be done, since this not new constrution and assuming the oven has a bonding/grounding strap?
because it is against NEC requirements. You can change a pigtail if you use the existing circuit just as it is. If you alter the circuit (such as extending it) you must use the newer requirements which means 4 wire.
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Old 02-22-2011, 11:36 AM   #12
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Why a dedicated line?


Quote:
Originally Posted by tmorriss View Post
That's a bummer. Running new lines presents a real problem. The breaker panel is in the garage (connected to house) but on the opposite wall. The wires from the panel all go up and over the garage ceiling and into the house from there, then drop down at various points. The garage is all finished, ceiling/walls all sheetrocked and painted.
Looks like it's time to call a pro for this part.

Just so I know. Why is it you can't extend this cable because it's 3 wire? Is it because there is no NEU/COM?

Can you not extend ANY 3 wire cable (say 14-2 or 12-2) from a junction box to run elsewhere?
you cannot extend a 3 wire circuit that is utilized for a 120/240 volt circuit. New requirements are that the neutral and ground conductors now must be 2 separate conductors. If you use the circuit in place as it is, you do not have have to upgrade it. If you alter the circuit, you must upgrade it to the current standards.
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Old 02-22-2011, 11:37 AM   #13
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Why a dedicated line?


What I am talking about is the way they were grounded for many years before going to the 4 wire system to seperate the case grounds.

Like when you change 3 wire to a 4 wire, you detach the grounding strap on the oven that is on the middle terminal, run your green wire to the case and your white wire to the middle terminal with the strap bent back out of the way.

In this casewith a 3 wire pigtail, reattach the strap, connect the white ground/neutral to the middle terminal with the strap on it, black to one side, red to the other.

New constrution calls for the 4 wire, but I'm thinking this might be considered existing and be grandfathered in.

That being said, being grandfathered in may void extending an existing circuit.

Maybe someone will comment on that.

Oops, sorry, I did not see Naps post on altering an existing circuit.
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Old 02-22-2011, 11:49 AM   #14
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Why a dedicated line?


Yep, about the only thing you can do without bringing it up to current code is changing the finishes, meaning the plugs and switches and fixtures.

Anything else is changing the circuits and requires bringing it up to current code.
Actually even plumbing is the same. You can change the fixtures without inspection permits. Move it 6" and you need permits.
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Old 02-22-2011, 01:22 PM   #15
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Why a dedicated line?


As long as the circuit is entact and not altered, you can use it as is.
One you move the circuit, or try to extend it, it then needs to meet current code, whitch in this case is 2 hots, netural, and a ground wire.

The same thing for an old 2 wire receptacle.
This can not be extended unless brought to current codes.

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