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Old 02-10-2013, 03:52 PM   #31
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Who foots the bill?


Quote:
Originally Posted by TarheelTerp View Post
The coordination of the hook up including whatever may be involved.
You are assuming the EC has any control what so ever in this regard. As was stated by myself, and JB we have no contact with the POCO. The inspector would call the POCO for final hook up and then the POCO comes out at their convenience. And we are in complete different areas of the country.

And as Wingnut has stated, if it was agreed upon to use the existing mast, then the customer didn't pay for the material or labor for the mast's replacement. So, in this case, it would be on the homeowner to pay for the replacement.
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Old 02-10-2013, 04:20 PM   #32
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Who foots the bill?


To have a meter installed without it being acceptable and hooked up to the POCO would have little value to us! Why would we want to pay for that?

This is what the invoice said- it is hand written so I might have misspelled something:

Removed 100A fused main-
installed 220o A Meter Main @ APS location
installed #2 THHN to Sub Panel
Separated neutrals
ground W #4 THHN stranded
installed 100 amp breaker to sub 3 -
20 A breakers to pool
Ran water and Gas band
ground system
Rod #4 Solid-
Permits
APS hookup
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Old 02-10-2013, 04:21 PM   #33
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Who foots the bill?


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You are assuming...
I'm assuming NOTHING that that the OP hasn't asserted the EC said or put into writing. What you would do or what JB or anyone else would do based on whatever the POCO protocols in your area may be... is quite immaterial.

Quote:
And as Wingnut has stated...
And I disagree with his conclusions too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anti-wingnut View Post
...complicated with a poor contract and estimate by the sparky.
The contractor should have stated his exclusions and allowances in his estimate.
So far so good. But what is wingnut saying here?
That the EC, the closest thing to an expert in the job that the customer knows, the guy agreeing to accept money for the job...
has *contracted* for that work very poorly.

But despite all of this...
Quote:
I would say that the OP is on the hook...
Why? On the hook for what? What has the OP done?

Quote:
It was probably assumed (by the EC) that the existing mast would be usable, and could be grandfathered in (even with a Heavy-Up)
How it happened we don't know...
But it seems pretty clear that somebody dropped the ball.

Maybe it was the POCO who did... maybe they said to reuse the old 2" riser on Monday and then on Thursday they realized the JM had stuffed it with 500's... or there's a clearance issue with a building or roofline nearby... whatever it is.

It's still not the customers responsibility to get in the middle of clearing it up... it's the EC's job to represent the customer and do what is needed to get the power on. Like he said they will and lke the bill indicates.

Last edited by TarheelTerp; 02-10-2013 at 04:36 PM.
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Old 02-10-2013, 04:26 PM   #34
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Who foots the bill?


Quote:
Originally Posted by k_buz View Post
You are assuming the EC has any control what so ever in this regard. As was stated by myself, and JB we have no contact with the POCO. The inspector would call the POCO for final hook up and then the POCO comes out at their convenience. And we are in complete different areas of the country.

And as Wingnut has stated, if it was agreed upon to use the existing mast, then the customer didn't pay for the material or labor for the mast's replacement. So, in this case, it would be on the homeowner to pay for the replacement.
I agree

And the proposal doesn't address a new mast.

I think you're on the hook
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Old 02-10-2013, 04:29 PM   #35
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As far as that is concerned, all "APS Hookup" means is that he is not responsible for final connections...APS is.

The key in all of this is that you did not have a contract. Was there a signed quote? If so, that is the contract. What did it say in regards to the mast? If not, then you did not pay for new mast.

I will also argue that even if there was a signed quote and the mast was not included in the scope of work, then you are on the hook for the new mast.
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Old 02-10-2013, 04:31 PM   #36
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there was no existing mast, so the electrician installed one and decided how high it was going to be
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Old 02-10-2013, 04:32 PM   #37
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the bare copper ground wire for both gas and water were the same wire with both water and gas connections
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Old 02-10-2013, 04:32 PM   #38
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If that is the case, and there is documentation of their requirements, the EC is on the hook to have this rectified.
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Old 02-10-2013, 04:42 PM   #39
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If that is the case, and there is documentation of their requirements, the EC is on the hook to have this rectified.

the final bill presented is the documentation and it has the p.c. hook up on it as a condition was part of the bill.
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Old 02-10-2013, 04:44 PM   #40
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No, the documentation is the sheet the POCO engineer gave to you.
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Old 02-10-2013, 04:46 PM   #41
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Who foots the bill?


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And the proposal doesn't address a new mast.
That isn't a proposal.
It's an after the fact bill showing what they put in.

The customer is not in any position to say what existing gear is suitable or not.
If asked "would you like us to re-use the mast-- save you $50?"....
the customer assumes the EC is saying the mast is suitable on whatever basis a mast may be judged (size, type, length, condition, whatever).
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Old 02-10-2013, 04:47 PM   #42
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After rereading the EC's invoice, there is nothing stated about a new mast. How was the old service fed?
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Old 02-10-2013, 04:49 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TarheelTerp View Post
That isn't a proposal.
It's an after the fact bill showing what they put in.

The customer is not in any position to say what existing gear is suitable or not.
If asked "would you like us to re-use the mast-- save you $50?"....
the customer assumes the EC is saying the mast is suitable on whatever basis a mast may be judged (size, type, length, condition, whatever).
True, however, if they don't pay for a new mast, they aren't entitled to a new mast.
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Old 02-10-2013, 04:51 PM   #44
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If the mast was paid for and installed incorrectly, then the EC would be responsible.
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Old 02-10-2013, 05:12 PM   #45
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i as a novice contracted a licensed electrician to up grade the existing service. He was the expert. I depended upon his expertise for the installation which included a final hook up to the po co. I paid the bill presented. It was a paid in full and included the approval by the po co because the bill presented said it would be so. the original contract was oral. word given is word honored. i was not interested in going into the litigiousness weeds. we shall see what we shall see. this gets into Clinton's famous quote: It depends upon what the meaning of is is.
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