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08-26-2009, 07:21 PM
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#1
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Member
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Nassau, Long Island, NY
Posts: 336
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What to use as a subpanel
What makes a panel a "sub" panel? Is it just a normal panel wired as a slave? I know the ground and neutral are not connected in the sub, but run as seperate runs back to the main, it's more a question of what kind of box can I use?
Do I just get a "normal" load center box and wire it downstream of a breaker in the main box? Say it's a 100A box, can I wire it downstream of a 60A breaker? In that case is the 100A box just a switch? As it will never trip as the upstream 60A would trip first.
Also, what's with these 10 space, 20 circuit boxes? Are they assuming tandem breakers? The only problem there is there aren't any tandem GFCI or AFCI breakers, right? Between GFCI and AFCI requirement for bedrooms, bathrooms, kitchens and outdoors how many tandem breakers can you use anymore?
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08-26-2009, 07:41 PM
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#2
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Xtreme DIY'r
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: South of Boston, MA
Posts: 17,248
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What to use as a subpanel
I used a normal main breaker 100a that is powered by a 60a at the main panel
The main 100a breaker provides a disconnect - detached pool cabana
I have another 100a sub next to the 200a panel - powered by a 100a breaker in main panel
Even with it next to the Main panel I used a main breaker panel
I use a 100a for more room - 20 circuits
With GFCI outlets you could still use tandem breakers
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08-26-2009, 07:48 PM
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#3
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Licensed Electrical Cont.
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: NY State
Posts: 6,164
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What to use as a subpanel
Quote:
Originally Posted by WaldenL
What makes a panel a "sub" panel? Is it just a normal panel wired as a slave? I know the ground and neutral are not connected in the sub, but run as seperate runs back to the main, it's more a question of what kind of box can I use?
Do I just get a "normal" load center box and wire it downstream of a breaker in the main box? Say it's a 100A box, can I wire it downstream of a 60A breaker? In that case is the 100A box just a switch? As it will never trip as the upstream 60A would trip first.
Also, what's with these 10 space, 20 circuit boxes? Are they assuming tandem breakers? The only problem there is there aren't any tandem GFCI or AFCI breakers, right? Between GFCI and AFCI requirement for bedrooms, bathrooms, kitchens and outdoors how many tandem breakers can you use anymore?
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I'd say you really have a good handle on this. 
Basically correct on all points.
__________________
Sometimes I feel like if I answer any more questions it is like someone trying to climb over a fence to jump off a bridge and me giving them a boost.
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08-26-2009, 10:49 PM
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#4
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Member
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Nassau, Long Island, NY
Posts: 336
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What to use as a subpanel
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scuba_Dave
With GFCI outlets you could still use tandem breakers
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True, but one gfci breaker seems cheaper (and simpler to test) than a bunch of gfci outlets, plus then you're protecting stuff other than outlets. Unless there's a reason you can't wire stuff like highhats (for example) downstream of a gfci.
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08-26-2009, 10:57 PM
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#5
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Licensed Electrical Cont.
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: NY State
Posts: 6,164
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What to use as a subpanel
Quote:
Originally Posted by WaldenL
True, but one gfci breaker seems cheaper (and simpler to test) than a bunch of gfci outlets, plus then you're protecting stuff other than outlets. Unless there's a reason you can't wire stuff like highhats (for example) downstream of a gfci.
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Why would you need multiple GFI receptacles? One at the head of the circuit serves the same purpose as a GFI breaker.
Also, WHY would you want to GFI protect lighting???
__________________
Sometimes I feel like if I answer any more questions it is like someone trying to climb over a fence to jump off a bridge and me giving them a boost.
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08-26-2009, 11:06 PM
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#6
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Xtreme DIY'r
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: South of Boston, MA
Posts: 17,248
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What to use as a subpanel
I have about 12 outside circuits right now protected by $2-3 GFCI outlets instead of $30 (25?) GFCI breakers
Plus the other 5-6 normal GFCI portected circuits in the house
I like the $36-54 cost VS $540 cost 
And I'll be adding at least 8 more outside circuits
But that's just me - crazy Christmas decorator 
http://www.diychatroom.com/f39/why-i...ircuits-50297/
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08-26-2009, 11:22 PM
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#7
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My License Ain't 4 Sale..
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Atlanta, Ga/Hamilton, Al
Posts: 1,813
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What to use as a subpanel
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scuba_Dave
I have about 12 outside circuits right now protected by $2-3 GFCI outlets instead of $30 (25?) GFCI breakers
Plus the other 5-6 normal GFCI portected circuits in the house
I like the $36-54 cost VS $540 cost
And I'll be adding at least 8 more outside circuits
But that's just me - crazy Christmas decorator
http://www.diychatroom.com/f39/why-i...ircuits-50297/ |
Where are you getting $3 GFCIs?
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08-26-2009, 11:25 PM
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#8
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Xtreme DIY'r
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: South of Boston, MA
Posts: 17,248
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What to use as a subpanel
I bought in bulk, I have a bunch that were $3 - Levitron
I also have blank face GFCI's that were about $2 a piece
I think all together I bought over 40
Between the house, garage, basement, pool cabana etc
There were only (3) GFCI's when I moved in
One outside outlet was not protected at all
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08-26-2009, 11:26 PM
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#9
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Wire Chewer
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 2,954
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What to use as a subpanel
Quote:
Originally Posted by InPhase277
Where are you getting $3 GFCIs?
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Yeah no kidding, and I thought 60 bucks for a pack of 3 was a steal. 
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08-27-2009, 12:31 AM
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#10
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Member
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Nassau, Long Island, NY
Posts: 336
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What to use as a subpanel
Quote:
Originally Posted by Speedy Petey
Why would you need multiple GFI receptacles? One at the head of the circuit serves the same purpose as a GFI breaker.
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D'Oh... I knew that too... Thanks for reminding me. Cool. Makes life simpler.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Speedy Petey
Also, WHY would you want to GFI protect lighting???
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Why not? Not going out of my way to do it, but if it's a side effect of wiring downstream of a gfci outlet/breaker no harm, right?
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08-27-2009, 12:39 AM
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#11
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Moderator
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 6,520
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What to use as a subpanel
No harm in GFCI protecting a light, especially in a bathroom. It certainly isn't a code requirement though, and could be quite a nuisance if the receptacle trips and the lights go out.
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08-27-2009, 12:46 AM
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#12
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Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: SoCal
Posts: 1,663
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What to use as a subpanel
Quote:
Originally Posted by thekctermite
No harm in GFCI protecting a light, especially in a bathroom. It certainly isn't a code requirement though, and could be quite a nuisance if the receptacle trips and the lights go out.
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Makes it easier to know the GFCI has tripped though...
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08-27-2009, 01:12 AM
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#13
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Moderator
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 6,520
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What to use as a subpanel
Quote:
Originally Posted by vsheetz
Makes it easier to know the GFCI has tripped though... |
Yeah, much easier to detect than that little click!!!
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08-27-2009, 07:30 AM
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#14
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Member
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Nassau, Long Island, NY
Posts: 336
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What to use as a subpanel
Quote:
Originally Posted by thekctermite
Yeah, much easier to detect than that little click!!! |
That reminds me, when nwe moved in someone had wired the gfci in the bathroom backwards. The bathroom lightswent off when you tripped it, but thye plug itself stayed hot.  Maybe it was just a bad gfci, i ended up replacing it anyway as it was the wrong color.
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08-27-2009, 01:41 PM
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#15
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Member
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 133
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What to use as a subpanel
Quote:
Originally Posted by thekctermite
No harm in GFCI protecting a light, especially in a bathroom. It certainly isn't a code requirement though, and could be quite a nuisance if the receptacle trips and the lights go out.
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I was under the impression that a GFCI receptacle had a maximum number of downstream devices it could protect. Five receptacles is in my memory. Right or wrong?
I was also under the impression that the lighting circuit and wall outlet circuit for any room could not be common. i.e. one tripped breaker will kill the outlets or kill the lights, but not both. Right or wrong?
I need to get familiar with the code again. A lot of changes have been adopted in the past 10 years.
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