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-   -   What size wire for 150ft run from meter (http://www.diychatroom.com/f18/what-size-wire-150ft-run-meter-157443/)

fitchetm 09-20-2012 05:16 PM

What size wire for 150ft run from meter
 
First time poster here...

I'm planning on running power from my house meter out to my polebarn about 150ft away. Planning on burying 1 1/2" or 2" conduit to carry the wire. I will have a 100amp panel in the barn.

So, my question is what size Aluminum wire do I need to purchase to go from the meter to the panel in the barn.

Second question is how do you determine what amp rating your meter is at the house? I have read that I will need to contact the utility company to have them updgrade my meter to have lugs that can accomodate 2 wires, but I've also read you can just buy/replace the lugs to accomdate the two wires, but it sounds like this might be more based on what the meter is currently sized for.

Third question is I've been told that I can open the meter myself, pull the meter off so power is not transferring through the lugs(even though the top leads are still HOT) and attach the wire and or lugs myself to the bottom of the meter. Would this be in violation of the utilty companies property? I believe they have a lock tag to prevent this but it can be easily overcame?

Thanks for the help.

matt

Speedy Petey 09-20-2012 05:30 PM

WHO told you this????

Typically you CANNOT just add a second wire to the meter lugs. You also cannot just increase the size of your service by another 100A by doing this.
You are getting some bum information from someone.

fitchetm 09-20-2012 05:50 PM

That's why I'm here I guess :)
 
Well.. that's bad news and good news I guess since it sounds like I was about to make a bad mistake.

Well, let's focue on one part that shouldn't matter.. .and that's wire size to the pole barn. I still plan on having a 100 amp panel in the barn and I still plan on running it from the meter (obviously after we get that part figured out > i.e. new service etc).

so what size do I need for that particular run?

(additional info> I already have a 200amp panel in my house, but I did not want to run the service for the polebarn from this panel, I wanted it to run form the meter, that way I'm not reducing the capacity of my house panel).

PoleCat 09-20-2012 06:56 PM

I would be interested in knowing where you can get these two hole lugs at. Can you get them sized for both 200A & 100A wire sizes? Never seen this myself so the curiosity is up.

Speedy Petey 09-20-2012 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fitchetm (Post 1013960)
Well, let's focue on one part that shouldn't matter.. .and that's wire size to the pole barn. I still plan on having a 100 amp panel in the barn and I still plan on running it from the meter (obviously after we get that part figured out > i.e. new service etc).

so what size do I need for that particular run?

#2AL or #4CU on a 90A breaker, or #1AL or #3CU on a 100A breaker. These numbers are for conductors in conduit. Cables may have lower values.




Quote:

Originally Posted by fitchetm (Post 1013960)
(additional info> I already have a 200amp panel in my house, but I did not want to run the service for the polebarn from this panel, I wanted it to run form the meter, that way I'm not reducing the capacity of my house panel).

Well, common sense should tell you that by not reducing the service to the house, and by adding another panel, you'd be increasing the overall service. By doing this you'd potentially be overloading the service conductors.

andrew79 09-20-2012 10:47 PM

You can't yank the meter yourself either. They tend to really frown on that at poco.

I highly doubt your using anywhere near what your service is supplying. If you were your hydro bill would be the 1000's a month. A list of signifigant loads currently installed would help greatly, but I'd wager you have plenty of room for a 100a sub panel.

frenchelectrican 09-21-2012 12:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PoleCat (Post 1014013)
I would be interested in knowing where you can get these two hole lugs at. Can you get them sized for both 200A & 100A wire sizes? Never seen this myself so the curiosity is up.

Polecat .,

The two hole lugs useally are found in class 320 socket or larger mais almost never on class 200 socket unless you have all in one box then it can have two main breakers in there.

Also ., Many POCO do have approved listing for which type of meter socket they can be used beside the common run of mill sockets.

Merci,.
Marc

Dierte 09-21-2012 01:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by frenchelectrican

Polecat .,

The two hole lugs useally are found in class 320 socket or larger mais almost never on class 200 socket unless you have all in one box then it can have two main breakers in there.

Also ., Many POCO do have approved listing for which type of meter socket they can be used beside the common run of mill sockets.

Merci,.
Marc

You can also buy kits for meter sockets that all 2 taps off of the load side. I typically use them for 200 incoming into 2 100 a panels

Speedy Petey 09-21-2012 06:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dierte (Post 1014277)
You can also buy kits for meter sockets that all 2 taps off of the load side. I typically use them for 200 incoming into 2 100 a panels

I'd be curious to see these.
I REALLY don't like this idea. It lets too many people use the exact logic as the OP which can lead to bad things.



http://images.lowes.com/product/conv...72324138lg.jpg
This is a typical 100A meter pan in my area. The 200A is exactly the same just larger.
I'd like to see lugs that would adapt this to two loads, without compromising bending radius and gutter space.

Now 320's are a different story. It is typical to see a 320/400A with two 200A panel on the load side. This all use bolt on lugs, you just use the ones appropriate for the job.

PoleCat 09-21-2012 09:18 AM

I have a detached garage that would have been cheesy easy to get to from the meter socket but I really don't need or want another panel on the property. Glad now that I didn't know about these as it would have made one more fork in the road to ponder.

J. V. 09-21-2012 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PoleCat (Post 1014389)
I have a detached garage that would have been cheesy easy to get to from the meter socket but I really don't need or want another panel on the property. Glad now that I didn't know about these as it would have made one more fork in the road to ponder.

If you have a detached garage and you have more than one circuit or one MWBC going to it, you must have two panels on your property. A panel for your house and main breaker panel for the garage.
The panel in the detached garage is required unless you only have one ciruit supplying the garage. See NEC Article below.

225.30 Number of Supplies. A building or other structure
that is served by a branch circuit or feeder on the load side
of a service disconnecting means shall be supplied by only
one feeder or branch circuit unless permitted in 225.30(A)
through (E). For the purpose of this section, a multiwire
branch circuit shall be considered a single circuit.
Where a branch circuit or feeder originates in these
additional buildings or other structures, only one feeder or
branch circuit shall be permitted to supply power back to
the original building or structure, unless permitted in
225.30(A) through (E).
For the purpose of this section, a multiwire branch circuit
shall be considered a single circuit.

OP. You can do what you suggested in your first post. The original post.
You CAN extend the service to your pole barn.
You cannot open or pull a meter yourself. This is a job for the utility.
You can buy lug adapters that allow for two wires. These must be UL approved and approved by the meter enclosure manufacturer. In most every case, you will buy the adapters from the manufacturer.
Extending services is not common and most people do not even consider it.
But if your meter enclosure is the easiest way to reach a detached structure, that is the way to go. And it is NEC compliant and perfectly legal.

PoleCat 09-21-2012 06:15 PM

Yeah I don't need much in this garage. There is barely enough room for a couple of cars in there let alone any electric toys. A 20A branch is all I will ever need in there. Just alot more work to get from my house panel than the meter socket.

fitchetm 09-21-2012 11:55 PM

Ok.. moving forward
 
So, sorry for all the confusion... I talked to the electric company today and told them of my plan. They have put in a work order for a planner to come out and survey my house/plans. Basically, it looks like I'll be increasing the meter up to a 320 and pulling from the meter directly to my polebarn (a two lug meter most likely).

So, now that I've got that squared away, I do have a question on the hook-up since It will have to be inspected...

For the wire... do I run 2/2/2 aluminum.. or do I need a four wire cable (i.e. 2/2/2/4). Will I have to ground the polebarn 100 amp panel separately?

Thanks

matt

frenchelectrican 09-22-2012 02:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dierte (Post 1014277)
You can also buy kits for meter sockets that all 2 taps off of the load side. I typically use them for 200 incoming into 2 100 a panels

Sérieux ? :huh:

As far for common 200 amp socket I never see that arrangement like that as Speedy pointed out.

Merci,
Marc

andrew79 09-22-2012 07:20 AM

I've seen the double lugs but only on distribution boards for high amperage. Scenarios where running parralell 500's is easier than running a larger harder to work with wire.


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