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Old 07-25-2010, 04:52 PM   #1
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What kind of wiring to expect in newer house.


The house is in California built around 12 years ago.
We just bought a rather expensive appliences from Thermador, sill nothing extraordinary: A combination oven that includes a convectional microwave and an oven.
The installers shocked us ( after destroying the packaging ) that it requires 50 amps circuit, while the existing ones are for 30 amps. They just looked up the trippers in the panel.

So the questions is: Should I expect that the wiring can handle 50 amps and that only the trippers were 30 amps because the existing similar oven was rated lower? What is the normal practice for wiring in California on a 12 years old house. I understand that I would need to look under the panel to check the wire gauge but till the electician comes I am just trying to prepare myselft to what to expect.

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Old 07-25-2010, 05:08 PM   #2
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What kind of wiring to expect in newer house.


Maybe I don't understand your post. You say you bought a Thermador, and were shocked to discover that it needed a 50 amp circuit. I assume this means that you did not discuss the electrical requirements when you purchased the unit, this is not the fault of the installer.

You seem surprised that the original oven was installed on a 30 amp circuit. Likely that was all it needed. My old oven required only a 30 amp, 240 volt circuit, hence had 10 gage wire installed, and a 30A breaker. You probably have the same setup. My new oven required a 40 amp, 240 volt circuit, hence required 8 gage wire (a new circuit).

New appliances typically draw more current than old applicances, as you have discovered. So you need a new circuit. Perhaps you can reuse the old 30A circuit for something else.

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Old 07-25-2010, 05:16 PM   #3
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What kind of wiring to expect in newer house.


The reason I am surprised is that I did not expect that the wiring in a relatively new house would not be sufficient to handle not so much extraordinaly oven.
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Old 07-25-2010, 05:20 PM   #4
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What kind of wiring to expect in newer house.


I have never seen a house where a circuit was installed to handle a larger load than the device it was attached to. For example, if you have a 20 amp, 240 volt air conditioner, you are going to have a 20A, 240 volt circuit, not likely to get a 30A, 240 volt circuit. Ditto for driers, stoves, microwaves, cooktops. The house builder installs the appropriately sized circuit. If in the future someone purchases an appliance that draws more current, well that's what keeps electricians in business.
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Old 07-25-2010, 05:54 PM   #5
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What kind of wiring to expect in newer house.


Thatwould be called greed. The greater gauge wire is not that much more expensive comparing to the work required. An besides I do not believe that it is possible to do the job on a finished and furnished house with the same quality as when the wiring is originally installed. Seems the best way forward is simply to return the appliences.
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Old 07-25-2010, 06:15 PM   #6
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What kind of wiring to expect in newer house.


How many jobs have you had to competitively bid? The real world has to be practical, not plan for the buyer 12 years later.
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Old 07-25-2010, 07:52 PM   #7
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What kind of wiring to expect in newer house.


Some houses have gas stoves installed
Should they be required to install a 50a 240v circuit in case someone 12 years in the future wants an electric stove ?
Should houses with electric stoves be required to install a gas connection just in case somoene wants to switch to gas ?
Its not greed
Its standard building practice
Which helps keep the cost down
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Old 07-25-2010, 08:29 PM   #8
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How many jobs have you had to competitively bid? The real world has to be practical, not plan for the buyer 12 years later.
That's exactly what I am saying. Of course they should plan for the 12 years later ! Otherwise they could just set up a cardboard box and not care what happens after the first rain.
What is the price difference between 8 and 6 gauge wire ? And compare it to the expense of installing a new wire.
I used to live in a different country a while ago, and the very first thing that struck me in the US was very poor quality of the residential buildings. This "build and forget" philosophy is good for the contractors though.
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Old 07-25-2010, 08:35 PM   #9
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What kind of wiring to expect in newer house.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Papa Carlo View Post
Thatwould be called greed. The greater gauge wire is not that much more expensive comparing to the work required. An besides I do not believe that it is possible to do the job on a finished and furnished house with the same quality as when the wiring is originally installed. Seems the best way forward is simply to return the appliences.
GREED?? Oh please!
This is a typical reply of someone who does not like the answers they are getting, and typical of how so many folks these days simply do not take responsibility for their actions, or inactions in this case.

YOU are the one who is at fault here, or if anything the appliance place where you got it for not suggesting that you check the existing circuit in your home.

Pretty much every single wall oven that is not any kind of combination oven is a 20 or 30 amp 240v circuit. Any you consider it greed that someone does not install a 50 amp circuit on the chance that you might buy the house and install a high dollar combination unit???? You really cannot be serious.
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Old 07-25-2010, 08:37 PM   #10
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What kind of wiring to expect in newer house.


Multiply the cost difference by thousand of houses
Actually millions in the US
Then multiply it by every circuit they would possibly need to safeguard
You can't plan, design & install for what may be created 12 years in the future

Yes, poor building in the US
That's why everything falls down in other countries when they have an earthquake
Admit you made a mistake & move on
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Old 07-25-2010, 10:23 PM   #11
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What kind of wiring to expect in newer house.


Sometimes, when we're building Photomats, we'll put in a 3000 amp service just in case it turns into a Target 20 years later.
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Old 07-26-2010, 12:34 PM   #12
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Sometimes, when we're building Photomats, we'll put in a 3000 amp service just in case it turns into a Target 20 years later.
You mean these? They used to be in parking lots everywhere. Too small for a Target ... usually remodeled into drive thru coffee / hot dog / sushi stores.
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Old 07-26-2010, 07:32 PM   #13
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Sorry, I forgot one of these:

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